medichopeful
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Why not make the background check similar to a LE check? Don't make everything an automatic DQ, but look at it and figure out if it's a problem.
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Why not make the background check similar to a LE check? Don't make everything an automatic DQ, but look at it and figure out if it's a problem.
Even for the EMT-B level taking a couple terms of A&P would be good. Increasing the length of the course so that more time can be spent on what is actually going on with various diseases/injuries and why we do what we do and why it works, increase the amount of time spent on WHY instead of it all being on HOW. Have an internship, even for the EMT level, albeit a shorter one. See if they are actually able to interact with strangers, and at the same time, teach them how.
What I meant by "real medical" was give the students the ability to think for themselves about what/why they are doing something. Instead of a "see this do this" mentality, it should be a bit more in-depth.
Unfortunately, those are the problems with background checks; where do you draw the line? I'd say at minimum someone who won't meet state and national standards for certification should be kept out. Beyond that is a bit more tough, and I don't really have an answer. I suppose you could say nobody with a felony record, but then, there would have to be an appeals process because it may not be as bad as a persons record would suggest.
Edit: What's said in the post above would probably be a good idea. If they don't meet state/national standards for certification then they are out, anything else let them appeal it and potentially explain the situation.
Regardless of what's done, something needs to change.
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Foxbat
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Regarding the expectations...
What profession isn't entered by people with unrealistic expectations (besides, maybe, sanitation workers and food employees)?
People become engineers because they love machinery and like to figure how stuff works, only to end up in a cubicle drafting designs for nothing but drill bits or washers.
People study biology to find cure for cancer and end up teaching bio to kids in an inner city school for 30,000 a year.
People get theater arts degree and the only roles they can get are in hemorrhoids suppositories commercials.
People get art degrees and end up flipping burgers.
People get into porn business... Well, you got the idea.
I'm really not sure EMS stands out in terms of unrealistic expectations.
What profession isn't entered by people with unrealistic expectations (besides, maybe, sanitation workers and food employees)?
People become engineers because they love machinery and like to figure how stuff works, only to end up in a cubicle drafting designs for nothing but drill bits or washers.
People study biology to find cure for cancer and end up teaching bio to kids in an inner city school for 30,000 a year.
People get theater arts degree and the only roles they can get are in hemorrhoids suppositories commercials.
People get art degrees and end up flipping burgers.
People get into porn business... Well, you got the idea.
I'm really not sure EMS stands out in terms of unrealistic expectations.
It's not that EMS is alone is people having unrealistic expectations, it's that so little, if anything is done to correct these peoples assumptions about what they will be doing. In the fields you mentioned, the shear length of time spent learning how to do their job and the content of their education will ensure that the freshly minted engineer/biologist/actor (well...maybe not actors
) will have a better idea of what their new reality is. Not saying that it'll be completely accurate, but much closer to the truth than what we often come across with new people. In EMS at the EMT level, nothing is done to ensure that the students understand what their role really is, where they actually exist in the medical spectrum, what their function will really be, and what their interventions (if any) will accomplish.Not to mention that medicine is often portrayed very unrealistically in the media.
I know here you generally have to do 36-48 hours on the road before you will be looked at; that is not true of everybody as some do none but it is generally held that you should undertake some shifts as a third rider because some people will turn around after 3 or 4 shifts and say "no this is not me" or "yeah ok sign me up".
Before the Degree was introduced (when Ambulance training as vocational) and even now that we have the degree, the recruits the Ambulance Service get tend to be older people; mid 20s is probably the youngest I've encountered and if I had to venture a guess, I would put the average age at around 28 or 30.
These people have gone out and worked for several years, maybe travelled, some are ex Police or ex military, or perhaps nursing cross-overs, generally they have a spouse and children. They've been out into the real world and have some weight behind them by which I mean they can generally conduct themselves to a higher level when it comes to maturity, professionalisim, cognitive thinking and general roundedness in that they have a better conceptulisation of the "big picture" rather than lights, sirens and adrenaline.
I've dealt with the old, the sick, the "unwell", scared, suicidal, hurt, frightened, all sorts of people; ones who couldn't speak English and ones who could, people from all sorts of nations and cultures and just lots of people in between. Each has a different outlook, different needs, different problem, they may require something different than the last; not everybody needs O2 and some wheels under them, some might need me to sit there for a half hour and have a cup of tea with them and say its OK you don't need to come to the hospital.
You can't talk to a young guy who has fallen off his skateboard the same as you can a little old nana who has CHF, a house with the disugsting odour of vomited blood is different than the nice, clean private home of an asthma patient. All require that you have a different approach, or well, to contradict myself, the same approach - a calm, professional, logical manner to sort out what is going on in admist some form of chaos.
There are some people who do this very well and some who do not. Those who do not in my experience and from that I have heard from others are those with little life experience who tend to be overepresented by the very young, straight out of school kids who roll up to the Paramedic degree.
The Degree itself is another problem; my nurse and doctor friends all say "oh you know the degree teaches you the very basics of what you need to know" well the Degree guys are told "oh you get gain proficency at basic life support level after the first year then move into intermediate and advanced life support". This, plus the fact the Degree is very new here (it has only been in the last decade that "outsiders" for want of a better term have been able to gain an Ambulance qualification) the students get sort of a sense of being a cut above the rest of the crews who only have the applied vocational Certificate and/or Diploma.
Really it doesn't matter at what age you are, you need certian traits to be an ambo, some have them and some do not; those that do not are disproportinatly represented by the young.
As far as selection here is what I would like to see:
- Evidence of at least a year of experience dealing with people; preferably through work but could be travel or some sort of extracirricular activities if they are a school leaver
- 48 hours (4 x 12) shifts on a truck, preferably not an ALS truck
- At least three references (I have seen young people struggle to get 2)
- Interview
- Police background check
- Simulated incident of some kind and how they handle it
- Fitness test, like a proper fitness test with thirty kilos of gear
- English 1
- Chemistry and biology 1
- A&P 1 and 2
- Scientific research methods 1
I think the best way to weed people out, honestly, give them thirty kilos of gear and send them into a small space where you have one guy on the floor and two or three others screaming at you preferably in some foreign language to try and help him. Once they pass that, it's onto sitting down with Nana for half an hour, making her a cup of tea and having a chat, as in they have to TALK to her for thirty minutes about things SHE wants to talk about AND understands, if they pass, then maybe they can be an ambo!
Before the Degree was introduced (when Ambulance training as vocational) and even now that we have the degree, the recruits the Ambulance Service get tend to be older people; mid 20s is probably the youngest I've encountered and if I had to venture a guess, I would put the average age at around 28 or 30.
These people have gone out and worked for several years, maybe travelled, some are ex Police or ex military, or perhaps nursing cross-overs, generally they have a spouse and children. They've been out into the real world and have some weight behind them by which I mean they can generally conduct themselves to a higher level when it comes to maturity, professionalisim, cognitive thinking and general roundedness in that they have a better conceptulisation of the "big picture" rather than lights, sirens and adrenaline.
I've dealt with the old, the sick, the "unwell", scared, suicidal, hurt, frightened, all sorts of people; ones who couldn't speak English and ones who could, people from all sorts of nations and cultures and just lots of people in between. Each has a different outlook, different needs, different problem, they may require something different than the last; not everybody needs O2 and some wheels under them, some might need me to sit there for a half hour and have a cup of tea with them and say its OK you don't need to come to the hospital.
You can't talk to a young guy who has fallen off his skateboard the same as you can a little old nana who has CHF, a house with the disugsting odour of vomited blood is different than the nice, clean private home of an asthma patient. All require that you have a different approach, or well, to contradict myself, the same approach - a calm, professional, logical manner to sort out what is going on in admist some form of chaos.
There are some people who do this very well and some who do not. Those who do not in my experience and from that I have heard from others are those with little life experience who tend to be overepresented by the very young, straight out of school kids who roll up to the Paramedic degree.
The Degree itself is another problem; my nurse and doctor friends all say "oh you know the degree teaches you the very basics of what you need to know" well the Degree guys are told "oh you get gain proficency at basic life support level after the first year then move into intermediate and advanced life support". This, plus the fact the Degree is very new here (it has only been in the last decade that "outsiders" for want of a better term have been able to gain an Ambulance qualification) the students get sort of a sense of being a cut above the rest of the crews who only have the applied vocational Certificate and/or Diploma.
Really it doesn't matter at what age you are, you need certian traits to be an ambo, some have them and some do not; those that do not are disproportinatly represented by the young.
As far as selection here is what I would like to see:
- Evidence of at least a year of experience dealing with people; preferably through work but could be travel or some sort of extracirricular activities if they are a school leaver
- 48 hours (4 x 12) shifts on a truck, preferably not an ALS truck
- At least three references (I have seen young people struggle to get 2)
- Interview
- Police background check
- Simulated incident of some kind and how they handle it
- Fitness test, like a proper fitness test with thirty kilos of gear
- English 1
- Chemistry and biology 1
- A&P 1 and 2
- Scientific research methods 1
I think the best way to weed people out, honestly, give them thirty kilos of gear and send them into a small space where you have one guy on the floor and two or three others screaming at you preferably in some foreign language to try and help him. Once they pass that, it's onto sitting down with Nana for half an hour, making her a cup of tea and having a chat, as in they have to TALK to her for thirty minutes about things SHE wants to talk about AND understands, if they pass, then maybe they can be an ambo!
piranah
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before i begin i would like to state that i AM a supporter of education. I am going immediately back to school for my RN in part to better my general medical knowledge to better myself as a paramedic. New Zealand has a little more than 4.2 million in population,canada has 33 million. The US has 301 million, with 73% of the fire dept. in the US being volunteer, do you honestly expect a across the board paramedic level or even a highly trained EMT with a solid education especially with the paid depts being cut so harshly. Let's be realistic for the population the US has the best EMS you could ask for at it's young age approx. 40 years. im tired so I am sorry if I am not making sense. I will repeat I am 100% for better/higher education, but I am a realist.
Hmm I think this one is more about the quality of the people EMS is attracting rather than education itself. The education does play a part because in the US the education is so minimalistic it's not really acting as a filter; not that education should but it acts as a defacto sieve if you will that makes a lights and sirens junkie go "man i dont want to do three years to become ambo or four to five years to become Intensive Care"
medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
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firecoins
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There is no profession portrayed realistically in the media, even journalism is not portrayed properly.
back to the point
I posted this article to talk about attitude in EMS. We (myself included) started to get back to the educational argument again.
Undoubtably lack of education is a major issue, one that is not easily addressed. (or it would have been)
I believe it was Mr. Brown who brought up about legal and peer pressure to suppress the Ricky Rescue (whacker) urge.
Some people hae stated that being a whacker is a phase, if that is the case, why does it affect some and not others?
As of yet, nobody has really put forth a definition of what exactly a "whacker" is.
There was some discussion on the value of experience. I think that has good discussion potential. Especially measuring experience by chronology vs. intensity. (they do not always corelate)
from the posts here, I think what we really need is to bring back ambulance drivers. 2 guys and a hearse. NOt for emergency service so much as for routine transports. It would save money, no need to pay for all the overhead of a "medium duty" truck and EMT's or Medics.
It would make the pay equal to the responsibility. (lift assist and cab driver)
It would reduce the amount of EMTs needed for routine transfers.
Would that also solve the problems of "patient" needs as well as reduce the overglamorization of the EMT?
Would it force EMS providers to seek out more education because actual "Emergency and Medical" jobs would be more competative?
Look forward to your opinions. Game on!
I posted this article to talk about attitude in EMS. We (myself included) started to get back to the educational argument again.
Undoubtably lack of education is a major issue, one that is not easily addressed. (or it would have been)
I believe it was Mr. Brown who brought up about legal and peer pressure to suppress the Ricky Rescue (whacker) urge.
Some people hae stated that being a whacker is a phase, if that is the case, why does it affect some and not others?
As of yet, nobody has really put forth a definition of what exactly a "whacker" is.
There was some discussion on the value of experience. I think that has good discussion potential. Especially measuring experience by chronology vs. intensity. (they do not always corelate)
from the posts here, I think what we really need is to bring back ambulance drivers. 2 guys and a hearse. NOt for emergency service so much as for routine transports. It would save money, no need to pay for all the overhead of a "medium duty" truck and EMT's or Medics.
It would make the pay equal to the responsibility. (lift assist and cab driver)
It would reduce the amount of EMTs needed for routine transfers.
Would that also solve the problems of "patient" needs as well as reduce the overglamorization of the EMT?
Would it force EMS providers to seek out more education because actual "Emergency and Medical" jobs would be more competative?
Look forward to your opinions. Game on!
Hmmm I think the best definition of a whacker is somebody who is inappropriate infact I think we should dump the term "whacker" and replace it with "inappropriate person" which is a much better description.
These people, be it in thier actions (lights, sirens, jump kits in thier car, lots of patches and scanners) or belief or attitude of some form of granduer or what we call "red light fever" they are just not appropriate for a position as an ambo.
This also extends to people who may not hold these beliefs or attitudes but are just not suited for the position; an 18 year old who is just out of school and who struggles with the basics of conversing with a patient because they don't have the people experience is also included.
I think the best way to define a whacker is "who don't you want working on your car with you?" and that right there is your answer.
This is basically what our Patient Transfer Officers are. A PTO is an ambutaxi driver who has a three day first aid course and cannot do anything except give O2 and use a toaster (AED). If you want to be an ambo of any value you must do the Diploma (Technician) or Degree or higher (Paramedic or Intensive Care).
St John issue them patches saying "First Responder" well they are not a responder of any sort, they do not respond to emergencies, they should either get a patch that says "Patient Transfer Officer" or no patch at all.
The UK has a simmilar position going by various names eg Emergency Care Attendant, Emergency Care Support Worker, Ambulance Assistant etc which is again, really a guy with a driving course and a first aid certificate.
I do not agree with how the HPC in the UK have really placed all the onus for care on the Paramedic as he is the "registered" professional and given him a crew partner who is so inadequately trained it is not funny. The ECA role should (and I think might have been designed to) encourage people to go onto Paramedic degrees (Intensive Care/ALS).
firetender
Community Leader Emeritus
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What does a Paramedic Do, Anyway?
Depending on your call area, the paramedic has different percentages of emergency, non-emergency, evaluation of medical status, routine transport, critical calls, trauma, basic intervention, triage and on and on. Every area is different, but only in the proportions.
In some areas, it appears all about serious medical cases. In others, mostly about the horizontal taxi game. But in MOST areas a disproportionate amount of calls involve providing the kinds of reassurance or medical guidance that the people once had available to them through connections with relatives, the family doctor, or extended families who provided folk wisdom and intervention.
It's not their fault; medical care has been institutionalized and human beings are dispensed drugs when what their humanness calls out for is connection. Our society has relegated the burden of care for the sick and injured to a cadre of professionals where once the burdens were more evenly spread out amongst the citizenry as a whole.
What is not being acknowledged is that more and more, the ambulance delivers the hope of human compassion and technical skill to someone's scene of unbearable stress.
In reality, rather than being a Specialist, the paramedic is called on to be a Generalist. The bottom line is paramedics deal with people in distress who do not have access to, cannot afford, or are not aware of other options in meeting their immediate healthcare needs. As a sideline, sometimes medics intervene in serious medical emergencies.
The educational, technical, emotional, spiritual, interpersonal, moral and philosophical territory a medic must traverse is far more broad than is covered in manuals of emergency care.
It is my position that if the field is going to develop as a profession, it is going to have to broaden its perspective of itself. It is not and never has been strictly about the delivery of emergency medical care.
It involves multiple modes of communication; extensive observation; multi-level discernments (where does this person best belong?), tact, diplomacy, and, if the job is to be done right, extensive knowledge of available local resources.
In an ideal world, the ambulance would be a triage unit, arriving at the scene and handling any immediate emergencies while mobilizing back-up services to follow, like EMT transport, social services evaluation teams, or psychiatric referral. As the EMS system stands, there are few services supporting IT; paramedics are flying without a net and then end up feeling guilty because most of the time, there are few whom they can really help.
So in looking over what I just wrote I'd have to conclude paramedics need to broaden their perspectives of themselves and the role they play in this society. They need to design a curricula for themselves that honestly prepares them for the reality, not the fantasy, of the job.
That means legitimization through a degree program (Read it and weep!) and that means a longer commitment.
Depending on your call area, the paramedic has different percentages of emergency, non-emergency, evaluation of medical status, routine transport, critical calls, trauma, basic intervention, triage and on and on. Every area is different, but only in the proportions.
In some areas, it appears all about serious medical cases. In others, mostly about the horizontal taxi game. But in MOST areas a disproportionate amount of calls involve providing the kinds of reassurance or medical guidance that the people once had available to them through connections with relatives, the family doctor, or extended families who provided folk wisdom and intervention.
It's not their fault; medical care has been institutionalized and human beings are dispensed drugs when what their humanness calls out for is connection. Our society has relegated the burden of care for the sick and injured to a cadre of professionals where once the burdens were more evenly spread out amongst the citizenry as a whole.
What is not being acknowledged is that more and more, the ambulance delivers the hope of human compassion and technical skill to someone's scene of unbearable stress.
In reality, rather than being a Specialist, the paramedic is called on to be a Generalist. The bottom line is paramedics deal with people in distress who do not have access to, cannot afford, or are not aware of other options in meeting their immediate healthcare needs. As a sideline, sometimes medics intervene in serious medical emergencies.
The educational, technical, emotional, spiritual, interpersonal, moral and philosophical territory a medic must traverse is far more broad than is covered in manuals of emergency care.
It is my position that if the field is going to develop as a profession, it is going to have to broaden its perspective of itself. It is not and never has been strictly about the delivery of emergency medical care.
It involves multiple modes of communication; extensive observation; multi-level discernments (where does this person best belong?), tact, diplomacy, and, if the job is to be done right, extensive knowledge of available local resources.
In an ideal world, the ambulance would be a triage unit, arriving at the scene and handling any immediate emergencies while mobilizing back-up services to follow, like EMT transport, social services evaluation teams, or psychiatric referral. As the EMS system stands, there are few services supporting IT; paramedics are flying without a net and then end up feeling guilty because most of the time, there are few whom they can really help.
So in looking over what I just wrote I'd have to conclude paramedics need to broaden their perspectives of themselves and the role they play in this society. They need to design a curricula for themselves that honestly prepares them for the reality, not the fantasy, of the job.
That means legitimization through a degree program (Read it and weep!) and that means a longer commitment.
firetender
Community Leader Emeritus
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What does a Paramedic Do, Anyway?
Depending on the call area, the paramedic has different percentages of emergency, non-emergency, evaluation of medical status, routine transport, critical calls, trauma, basic intervention, triage and on and on. Every area is different, but only in the proportions.
In some areas, it appears all about serious medical cases. In others, mostly about the horizontal taxi game. But in MOST areas a disproportionate amount of calls involve providing the kinds of reassurance or medical guidance that the people once had available to them through connections with relatives, the family doctor, or extended families who provided folk wisdom and intervention.
It's not their fault; medical care has been institutionalized and human beings are dispensed drugs when what their humanness calls out for is connection. Our society has relegated the burden of care for the sick and injured to a cadre of professionals where once the burdens were more evenly spread out amongst the citizenry as a whole.
What is not being acknowledged is that more and more, the ambulance delivers the hope of human compassion and technical skill to someone's scene of unbearable stress.
In reality, rather than being a Specialist, the paramedic is called on to be a Generalist. The bottom line is paramedics deal with people in distress who do not have access to, cannot afford, or are not aware of other options in meeting their immediate healthcare needs. As a sideline, sometimes medics intervene in serious medical emergencies.
The educational, technical, emotional, spiritual, interpersonal, moral and philosophical territory a medic must traverse is far more broad than is covered in manuals of emergency care.
It is my position that if the field is going to develop as a profession, it is going to have to broaden its perspective of itself. It is not and never has been strictly about the delivery of emergency medical care in much the same way as nursing was never about bedpans.
It involves multiple modes of communication; extensive observation; multi-level discernments (where does this person best belong?), tact, diplomacy, and, if the job is to be done right, extensive knowledge of available local resources.
In an ideal world, the ambulance would be a triage unit, arriving at the scene and handling any immediate emergencies while mobilizing back-up services to follow, like EMT transport, social services evaluation teams, or psychiatric referral. As the EMS system stands, there are few services supporting IT; paramedics are flying without a net and then end up feeling guilty because most of the time, there are few whom they can really help.
WHY NOT TRAIN PARAMEDICS TO ACTUALLY HELP THE PEOPLE THEY SERVE?
So in looking over what I just wrote I'd have to conclude paramedics need to broaden their perspectives of themselves and the role they play in this society. They need to design a curricula for themselves that honestly prepares them for the reality, not the fantasy, of the job.
That means legitimization through a degree program (Read it and weep!) and that means a longer commitment to the profession. It is predominately a transient's profession because it prepares its practitioners for only one-tenth of what they do. It is accepted that burnout is the major cause of medic's leaving the field. Of course it is, it's designed that way.
Depending on the call area, the paramedic has different percentages of emergency, non-emergency, evaluation of medical status, routine transport, critical calls, trauma, basic intervention, triage and on and on. Every area is different, but only in the proportions.
In some areas, it appears all about serious medical cases. In others, mostly about the horizontal taxi game. But in MOST areas a disproportionate amount of calls involve providing the kinds of reassurance or medical guidance that the people once had available to them through connections with relatives, the family doctor, or extended families who provided folk wisdom and intervention.
It's not their fault; medical care has been institutionalized and human beings are dispensed drugs when what their humanness calls out for is connection. Our society has relegated the burden of care for the sick and injured to a cadre of professionals where once the burdens were more evenly spread out amongst the citizenry as a whole.
What is not being acknowledged is that more and more, the ambulance delivers the hope of human compassion and technical skill to someone's scene of unbearable stress.
In reality, rather than being a Specialist, the paramedic is called on to be a Generalist. The bottom line is paramedics deal with people in distress who do not have access to, cannot afford, or are not aware of other options in meeting their immediate healthcare needs. As a sideline, sometimes medics intervene in serious medical emergencies.
The educational, technical, emotional, spiritual, interpersonal, moral and philosophical territory a medic must traverse is far more broad than is covered in manuals of emergency care.
It is my position that if the field is going to develop as a profession, it is going to have to broaden its perspective of itself. It is not and never has been strictly about the delivery of emergency medical care in much the same way as nursing was never about bedpans.
It involves multiple modes of communication; extensive observation; multi-level discernments (where does this person best belong?), tact, diplomacy, and, if the job is to be done right, extensive knowledge of available local resources.
In an ideal world, the ambulance would be a triage unit, arriving at the scene and handling any immediate emergencies while mobilizing back-up services to follow, like EMT transport, social services evaluation teams, or psychiatric referral. As the EMS system stands, there are few services supporting IT; paramedics are flying without a net and then end up feeling guilty because most of the time, there are few whom they can really help.
WHY NOT TRAIN PARAMEDICS TO ACTUALLY HELP THE PEOPLE THEY SERVE?
So in looking over what I just wrote I'd have to conclude paramedics need to broaden their perspectives of themselves and the role they play in this society. They need to design a curricula for themselves that honestly prepares them for the reality, not the fantasy, of the job.
That means legitimization through a degree program (Read it and weep!) and that means a longer commitment to the profession. It is predominately a transient's profession because it prepares its practitioners for only one-tenth of what they do. It is accepted that burnout is the major cause of medic's leaving the field. Of course it is, it's designed that way.
stop it!
Stop overgeneralizing. Vene, Sasha...I'm sorry, but you obviously had too much time on your hands to think about this topic. The biggest problem of all are professionals that have been in the field long enough (but not necessarily veterans) that make sweeping overgeneralizations about "new basics". You claim that a "ricky resuce" attitude NOT backed up with knowledge is a problem. I agree. Yet you take this fact and run with it over 5 paragraphs of overanalyzation, going back and forth over ANECTDOTAL evidence based on the few jackasses you've had the pleasure of attending school/working with.
Bottom line: the behavior of being eager to learn and perform to the best of one's abilities should be seen from "lowly EMT" all the way to physician. Because, like you said, progression is important. Obviously, no science is static, especially when directly involved with the lives of patients. NO one has learned everything he can and there is ALWAYS room for CE and updating of protocals.
No need to go on and on and on into minute anecdotes that stray from the topic at hand. IF YOU FEEL THERE ARE TOO MANY UNDERQUALIFIED NEW EMT's that are too cocky with nothing to show for it, THEN TEACH THEM THE ERRORS OF THEIR WAYS. Who gives a :censored::censored::censored::censored: if you offend them. They offend the profession, and ultimately the patient. I'm so sick of hearing older employees complain about new basics that sign on with the company because many times, when asked if they corrected the new basic's wrongdoing, there answer is no. They simply kept it bottled inside until they ran into someone else, then vented. It's your job as a veteran to train newcomers to the profession, whether you like their attitude or not.
Stop overgeneralizing. Vene, Sasha...I'm sorry, but you obviously had too much time on your hands to think about this topic. The biggest problem of all are professionals that have been in the field long enough (but not necessarily veterans) that make sweeping overgeneralizations about "new basics". You claim that a "ricky resuce" attitude NOT backed up with knowledge is a problem. I agree. Yet you take this fact and run with it over 5 paragraphs of overanalyzation, going back and forth over ANECTDOTAL evidence based on the few jackasses you've had the pleasure of attending school/working with.
Bottom line: the behavior of being eager to learn and perform to the best of one's abilities should be seen from "lowly EMT" all the way to physician. Because, like you said, progression is important. Obviously, no science is static, especially when directly involved with the lives of patients. NO one has learned everything he can and there is ALWAYS room for CE and updating of protocals.
No need to go on and on and on into minute anecdotes that stray from the topic at hand. IF YOU FEEL THERE ARE TOO MANY UNDERQUALIFIED NEW EMT's that are too cocky with nothing to show for it, THEN TEACH THEM THE ERRORS OF THEIR WAYS. Who gives a :censored::censored::censored::censored: if you offend them. They offend the profession, and ultimately the patient. I'm so sick of hearing older employees complain about new basics that sign on with the company because many times, when asked if they corrected the new basic's wrongdoing, there answer is no. They simply kept it bottled inside until they ran into someone else, then vented. It's your job as a veteran to train newcomers to the profession, whether you like their attitude or not.
While that is true we must look beyond that at the cause of the problem; there are people out there who seem to be falling through the cracks that would never have a decade or two ago.
I cannot speak for the US system but I have heard many experienced educators that I know in the US say basically "if these people I work with today were not EMTs they would be flipping hamburgers".
Personally I have to be thankful we hold our ambos to much higher education standards than in the US which helps keep down the number of whackers let me put it this way
Do you think EMS as a profession has gotten to a point where for some reason it is unable to sufficently weed out those who should not be in it?
redcrossemt
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Only via choices made by a few, and largely motivated by greed.
redcrossemt
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I think the point many are trying to make is that no EMT should be underqualified about adequate pre-EMT qualifications (life experience, college classes, background check) and passing an appropriate EMT education program. If we're passing students who are not qualified, then we're doing something wrong... It may be in pre-education or the programs themselves, but something has to change.
It depends on their attitude! I can TRY all day long but some don't want to learn, and some think they know it all and refuse to learn.
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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for a better definition of whacker, consider this:
a whacker is a person of any age whose life revolves around Fire or EMS, and where this person insists on showing everyone in the world his affiliations either directly or indirectly. This can include the traditional $2000 lightbar on a $500 car, wearing novelty tshirts, wearing T-shirts identifying him or herself as an emergency responding in public during non-emergency related activities (such as shopping in the mall), wearing EMT pants as standard attire (yes, some people do this), or always carrying a pager on the loudest volume setting, even during times when said person is unavailable to respond. There people also have been known to have large novelty sticker on the back of their rear window, or on the front window.
This also includes newbies to EMS whose life revolves completely around EMS, as in they are spending several nights a week at the EMS quarters (even if not on call) not having any friends outside of EMS, and people who are just always there, often when not qualified as an EMT or driver.
a whacker is a person of any age whose life revolves around Fire or EMS, and where this person insists on showing everyone in the world his affiliations either directly or indirectly. This can include the traditional $2000 lightbar on a $500 car, wearing novelty tshirts, wearing T-shirts identifying him or herself as an emergency responding in public during non-emergency related activities (such as shopping in the mall), wearing EMT pants as standard attire (yes, some people do this), or always carrying a pager on the loudest volume setting, even during times when said person is unavailable to respond. There people also have been known to have large novelty sticker on the back of their rear window, or on the front window.
This also includes newbies to EMS whose life revolves completely around EMS, as in they are spending several nights a week at the EMS quarters (even if not on call) not having any friends outside of EMS, and people who are just always there, often when not qualified as an EMT or driver.
philosophical musings
Time is something I nver have enough of, but I do take a break from my responsibilities from time to time and muse over my observations to unwind a bit.
Are you suggesting I am not a veteran or I haven't spent enough time in the profession to make such statements? Without knowing my backgraound, which I will not detail here in entirety as I struggle to keep my resume under 2pages, lets just say that I have been around the block a few times.
Yes it is anecdotal, In science some may call it observational. I doubt there are many studies on whackerdom (is that even a word?) or even overzealous rookies. You may also find some sarcastic humor in comparing the overzealous with the prominant theory of cancer causing gene mutations. Relax a little. I think it was Twain who said "true humor is replete with wisdom."
Who said it wasn't? I haven't encountered 1 surgeon that keeps a surgical kit "just in case." Infact I have yet to meet any doctor who keeps anything greater than the wal mart style first aid kit in their car. My comedian tendancies would be very quick to make fun of an orthopod who stocked his car full of plaster slinting/casting material prior to a camping trip "just in case."
As the Jester line in Shakespeare's king Lear reads, "I am better than thou art now! I am a fool but thou art nothing."
Nobody is denying this, but I believe many advocate for more initial education rather than CE.
People are passionate, it happens.
As an educator, one of the questions that always lingers is "What is the responsibility of formal education and what is the responsibility of the employer?"
I am afraid even with my dedication and the fact I do not teach any level lower than Medic anymore, the time constraints imposed upon me barely leave time to meet the curriculum; much less cover a topic in sufficent detail, teach people critical thinking skills, or professional behavior and standards beyond a cursory definition of what those words mean. I know the educators who teach the Basic and MFR levels are more pressed for time. Perhaps you can offer a solution to the dilemma?
In my anecdotal experience, and I would wager there is evidence somewhere tht positive reinforcement as well as empowering and enabling works far better than insulting an angering people. Additionlly constantly offending people in a academic or employment environment is not only unprofessional, it could be labled as harassment, which is illegal. Furthermore, it creates a hostile work/learning environment that is detrimental to the goals of both education and patient care.
Who says they offend the patient? I submit patients don't know good care from bad, only how they are treated. You are unlikely to sue your friend, but you gladly would your enemy. I also understand (but am too lazy to look up right now) that patients who are happy with their provider are less likely to file suit even when legitimate mistakes are made.
Today I was in the hospital, a patient addressed the director of the department as "nurse" despite her long white lab coat that said "Dr." in front of her name and her professional business attire beneath it. In every state and country I have spent time in a health care facility,more than a handful, I frequently notice patients think all men are doctors and all women nurses. You think the patients know enough to be insulted by the technical medical care? I have never seen a study demonstrating elephants can't fly, but I'm willing to accept observational evidence on the matter. Perhaps I am substandard as a scientist?
I don't think many would disagree with this point, especially since most healthcare providers are very happy to help and guide people. But my initial question was along the lines of why do many new providers resist such efforts by experienced providers?
Would you be willing to answer any of the questions I posed in my thread?
It looks to me like you just vented your anger without anything constructive to say.
Time is something I nver have enough of, but I do take a break from my responsibilities from time to time and muse over my observations to unwind a bit.
Are you suggesting I am not a veteran or I haven't spent enough time in the profession to make such statements? Without knowing my backgraound, which I will not detail here in entirety as I struggle to keep my resume under 2pages, lets just say that I have been around the block a few times.
Yes it is anecdotal, In science some may call it observational. I doubt there are many studies on whackerdom (is that even a word?) or even overzealous rookies. You may also find some sarcastic humor in comparing the overzealous with the prominant theory of cancer causing gene mutations. Relax a little. I think it was Twain who said "true humor is replete with wisdom."
Who said it wasn't? I haven't encountered 1 surgeon that keeps a surgical kit "just in case." Infact I have yet to meet any doctor who keeps anything greater than the wal mart style first aid kit in their car. My comedian tendancies would be very quick to make fun of an orthopod who stocked his car full of plaster slinting/casting material prior to a camping trip "just in case."
As the Jester line in Shakespeare's king Lear reads, "I am better than thou art now! I am a fool but thou art nothing."
Nobody is denying this, but I believe many advocate for more initial education rather than CE.
People are passionate, it happens.
As an educator, one of the questions that always lingers is "What is the responsibility of formal education and what is the responsibility of the employer?"
I am afraid even with my dedication and the fact I do not teach any level lower than Medic anymore, the time constraints imposed upon me barely leave time to meet the curriculum; much less cover a topic in sufficent detail, teach people critical thinking skills, or professional behavior and standards beyond a cursory definition of what those words mean. I know the educators who teach the Basic and MFR levels are more pressed for time. Perhaps you can offer a solution to the dilemma?
In my anecdotal experience, and I would wager there is evidence somewhere tht positive reinforcement as well as empowering and enabling works far better than insulting an angering people. Additionlly constantly offending people in a academic or employment environment is not only unprofessional, it could be labled as harassment, which is illegal. Furthermore, it creates a hostile work/learning environment that is detrimental to the goals of both education and patient care.
Who says they offend the patient? I submit patients don't know good care from bad, only how they are treated. You are unlikely to sue your friend, but you gladly would your enemy. I also understand (but am too lazy to look up right now) that patients who are happy with their provider are less likely to file suit even when legitimate mistakes are made.
Today I was in the hospital, a patient addressed the director of the department as "nurse" despite her long white lab coat that said "Dr." in front of her name and her professional business attire beneath it. In every state and country I have spent time in a health care facility,more than a handful, I frequently notice patients think all men are doctors and all women nurses. You think the patients know enough to be insulted by the technical medical care? I have never seen a study demonstrating elephants can't fly, but I'm willing to accept observational evidence on the matter. Perhaps I am substandard as a scientist?
I don't think many would disagree with this point, especially since most healthcare providers are very happy to help and guide people. But my initial question was along the lines of why do many new providers resist such efforts by experienced providers?
Would you be willing to answer any of the questions I posed in my thread?
It looks to me like you just vented your anger without anything constructive to say.
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I do not think it is the behaviourist technical skill we must worry about but rather the high level cognitive problem solving the why and what and what if as opposed to the how.
Somebody who runs around with lights and sirens and jump kits in thier car, stickers and patches everywhere and scanners blaring or combination thereof to me does not show the maturity and professional responsibility to be an ambo.
Somebody who runs around with lights and sirens and jump kits in thier car, stickers and patches everywhere and scanners blaring or combination thereof to me does not show the maturity and professional responsibility to be an ambo.