I witnessed a bad fall yesterday

EDAC

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I was on a weekend getaway yesterday when I saw a man fall about 6 feet and land head first onto a concrete slab. I watched as at least 10-15 people walked by and did nothing but look down and keep walking. I got to the gentleman and he was bleeding severely from the back of his head and was unresponsive. There was no cell service at our location and I decided to try to help him first and then call for help. I was able to get a signal about 1/2 mile away, (very weak signal). My thought process was to try to control the bleeding, stabilize the head and neck, then call for help.

Once I got to him 2 other ladies came over to help, I showed one how to stabilize his head, then we moved him onto his side and I applied a dressing (my shirt) to his head, I felt so helpless, the only thing I could was try to control the bleeding and stabilize his head. I checked his vitals, his pulse was rapid, but strong, and his respirations were rapid and unlabored. I checked his pupils by shading his eyes and then exposing to the sunlight, they were dialated and slow to respond, his skin was pink, but cool. Once I felt the bleeding was stopped, and my helpers were going to stay and continue to stabilize his head, I went to call for help, the total time felt like an hour, but in reality it was just about 10 minutes. As I left his family arrived and told me not to call for help, they would. I stayed with the man and he started to come around after about 15 minutes. I told him that his family was going to call for help, and he became very agitated, and insisted that he was going to be OK and did not need an ambulance. I tried to explain to him that after losing consiousness he should get checked out by a Dr., again he was very firm in not wanting any help. I saw that the entire family was getting very anxious and I began to feel very uncomfortable, they thanked me and said they would take it from there, so reluctantly I left the area and stopped to watch what they did, they got into their van and left.

The whole way home I began to second guess myself and thought that I should have called for help first, but then I started to think, with the signifigance of the bleeding and the fact that he was not responding, I did the right thing. I have no idea if the man ever went to the hospital or not, we were at least 70 miles from the nearest hospital. I have run this through my head for 2 days now and feel that I did the wrong thing by not calling for help first, I am a student so I work for no EMS agency. I could not leave with out calling 911, and explained the situation. They said they would send someone out, I waited not too far away and watched the family leave with the man. I felt at that point I had done what I could and just left it at that.

I am now very confused, I kept thinking I should follow the van and get a plate number, but then, I thought that may be it was not any of my business at that point, if they wanted help, they would get it. I don't know, did I do the right thing? Or should have done something different? I feel in a way I did enough, but yet in another way, I could have done more.
 
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Shishkabob

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Should have called first, as an ambulance, or even an engine, would have gotten there in less then 10min probably.


But once the family came and said thank you but bye, that's the end of your duty. Walk away and don't look back, as it's now on them.
 

ResTech

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Like Linuss said... its all on them to seek medical care or not. You were just functioning as a lay person. Nothing you can do. Agreed though, with the fall and loss of consciousness he should have went to the ED.
 

Cory

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Well, I want to first say that you are a very good person for stopping to help. You did what the law holds you to, and you are going to be a good EMT I think. There are a lot of people, even students, who are to afraid to help in those stiustions.

As for your treatment. I cannot say on a professional level, all I have is some lousy Lifeguard cert., but what I was taught was to call first UNLESS the patient was in too much of a critical consdition (i.e. severe bleeding, not breathing, no pulse) so I think you did the right thing.

Even if you did call, the fa,ily probably would've arrived before an ambulance if you were in a somewhat issolated location(which by your explanation, you were). I can't honestly say the family probably took the man too the hospital, I wouldn't doubt that they didn't.

Here is the only thing I would've done differently. Explain to the family how serious his injuries and fall was. Then they might have been compelled enough to call. But that is still an unlikelly thing I would guess.

You can't force anyone to call. And medics can't force anyone to go with them. You did the right thing. Ambulance or no ambulance, you saved that man's life. If you didn't help him, he could've laid there and blead out while everyone elses too important lives continued on as normal. You were the hero in this situation. Congrats on your first real save (or maybe not, idk)

As for the thinking it over, I know what you mean. As a lifeguard I am very limited in care I can give. I jave seen some pretty bad stuff, and I always feel so bad for days, even weeks afterwards. But I can only do so much. You will get over it eventually. Fell good about it, you made a big difference.



-Cory-
 
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wesb123

Forum Ride Along
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all these post are wright.
but rember this you did your best and people can refuse treatment at any time
and that suck but we have to deal with it. He should go to the ED and hopefuly he will before he is parlized for the rest of his life. YOu did the write thing. This is one of the more frustrating things in EMS.

Also do not let it get to you it hapens just move on and help the next person

Good job Taking care of the ABC first you may have saved his life

1/2 mile is a long way when some one is not breathing
 
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mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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Sounds like "Done Good" to me.

Don't follow or stalk someone, they might stop suddenly.
 

WuLabsWuTecH

Forum Deputy Chief
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Yeah, it's their coice whehter they want help or not, and as a layperson you already went above and beyond your call of duty.

I mean no offense to you, but I just wanted to get some opinions from other Monday morning qb's: Would you have called sooner? It seems like you might have wanted to send one of those ladies to make the call as soon as they got on scene. If you were the only one, fgre out if you can stabilize, if so, stabilize and call within 5-10 minutes, but if not, go ahead an leave to make the call? just my 2 cents from my interpretation of the events that unfolded. I wasn't there and you'd know better than me...
 

HotelCo

Forum Deputy Chief
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The whole way home I began to second guess myself and thought that I should have called for help first, but then I started to think, with the signifigance of the bleeding and the fact that he was not responding, I did the right thing.

You should have called first.

"Hey hey are you Okay? No response... call 911."

If you can't do it, you tell someone else to while you stabilize the spine and control the bleeding.
 
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EMT-G36C

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My only question to those with more experience, as I would have stopped as well, is aren't you required to stay with him once you start care until you can hand him up to a higher level?

Or is the family and pt's refusal good enough, as there is no refusal on hand to sign?

I don't want to lose my license trying to help someone out.
 

reaper

Working Bum
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If you are not on duty, then you are a lay person. If the pt does not want your help, walk away! You can be charged with A&B if you persist, after being told to step away!
 

EMT-G36C

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Thanks.

You guys would probably think I'm a bit whackerish but I carry a backpack with me at all times, and along with my laptop, books, and nicknacks I carry around with me, I carry gloves, steth, bp cuff, CPR mask, pen light and basic bandaging equipment. Also now that its hot out a few cold packs.

I hang out with lots of people, and a lot of them either A.) are free runners or B.) do stupid things.

I want to be able to help if anything ever happens. They know that, and are glad I carry my stuff with me. I have seen dudes climb up walls, and staircases and stuff, and I always worry about falls and the such.

But if I see a random person need help I will stop. My best friend (who is with me at all times except work lol) knows the drill already. We see something and I tell him I'm helping he is to immediately call 911 while I see if I can help.

I'm weird.
 

WuLabsWuTecH

Forum Deputy Chief
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My only question to those with more experience, as I would have stopped as well, is aren't you required to stay with him once you start care until you can hand him up to a higher level?

Or is the family and pt's refusal good enough, as there is no refusal on hand to sign?

I don't want to lose my license trying to help someone out.
Wow, warn me to stay away from you! You seem to have a black cloud seeing as how you and your friend have a system worked out!

You are not required to stay with him. If you were working and had a duty to act, then yes, but there are exceptions: The first that omes to mind is of course scene safety, and I believe another one is if you need assistance and cannot make contact with dispatch, then one of the people can leave the scene to make contact. If elaving only one on scene makes the scene unsafe, then both may leave with the intention of returning upon completion of contact.
 

rescue99

Forum Deputy Chief
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Yeah, it's their coice whehter they want help or not, and as a layperson you already went above and beyond your call of duty.

I mean no offense to you, but I just wanted to get some opinions from other Monday morning qb's: Would you have called sooner? It seems like you might have wanted to send one of those ladies to make the call as soon as they got on scene. If you were the only one, fgre out if you can stabilize, if so, stabilize and call within 5-10 minutes, but if not, go ahead an leave to make the call? just my 2 cents from my interpretation of the events that unfolded. I wasn't there and you'd know better than me...

Bingo...this is the correct action! :) Send one of the ladies who were standing by.
 

mycrofft

Still crazy but elsewhere
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I'da called for help with a LOC.

You know what? If the pt and family decide to leave, they are free to unless restrained by legal authority (the po-po, LE, deputies or the like). Especially if being told to do something by a civilian bystander. Just smile and tell them your name is Sasha Mycrofft or WuLabs and split.;)
 

EMT-G36C

Forum Crew Member
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Wow, warn me to stay away from you! You seem to have a black cloud seeing as how you and your friend have a system worked out!

You are not required to stay with him. If you were working and had a duty to act, then yes, but there are exceptions: The first that omes to mind is of course scene safety, and I believe another one is if you need assistance and cannot make contact with dispatch, then one of the people can leave the scene to make contact. If elaving only one on scene makes the scene unsafe, then both may leave with the intention of returning upon completion of contact.
hahaha, I'm not a black cloud, and the system has never been used.

I just like being prepared.
 
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