How will Trump effect EMS?

[Arovetli]

Look, nobody -not the government, no Donald trump nor Donald Duck- can harm or damage EMS worse that we harm and damage ourselves.

No one is coming to save us.

No one is looking out for us.

We gotta get our act together as a profession. Then we start dictating the terms for ourselves.


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[Arovetli]

Yep. But then you gotta balance profit motive incentives against social justice and equality. It's an unfortunately bad circle that someone should win a Nobel prize for solving.


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[Qulevrius]

I also pointed out that for many thousands of years the problem of poverty, social welfare, class mobility, etc. haven't been solved and were often, by leaders, neglected in quite a gregarious fashion, as evidenced by several quotes from world leaders.

And therein lies the problem. See, the leaders are not supposed to solve these problems. The leaders are supposed to lay down a foundation for an infrastructure, so these who don't want to live in ****, can make an effort and stop living in ****. And then there's the mice vs cookies analogy. This is the very nature of difference in philosophy between capitalism and socialism.

 

[Arovetli]

I agree with you, I would point out that as the US is a mixed economy, it's far more complicated that just left vs. right.

I will give an example: for ever percentage point the unemployment rate increases thousands of Americans die or suffer ill health.

Where's the social justice when Enron comes over for dinner, or BP wrecks the environment with an oil spill, or poor behavior on Wall Street leads to recession?


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[Arovetli]

It always amazes me:

that when a large group of people gets together and pool money to cover risk of bad health it's called private insurance.

And then when a large group of people get together and pool money to cover risk of bad health it's called socialized medicine.


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[Arovetli]

One is s taxpayer and one is a shareholder

Hmmmm. A puzzler.


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[Qulevrius]

I agree with you, I would point out that as the US is a mixed economy, it's far more complicated that just left vs. right.

I will give an example: for ever percentage point the unemployment rate increases thousands of Americans die or suffer ill health.

Where's the social justice when Enron comes over for dinner, or BP wrecks the environment with an oil spill, or poor behavior on Wall Street leads to recession?


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Absolutely. The backstage players have no political affiliation, they just - figuratively speaking - put people behind the wheel, so they can steer it their way. Unfortunately, social justice is, for the most part, a pipe dream. So, whilst like you said, no Donald (Trump or Duck) could solve these issues, what the Donald can do is try and present an alternative business model to the backstage players. And him being the successful, experienced businessman he is, plus his apparent lack of interest in political lobbying, could tip the scales. We'll see.

 

[Qulevrius]

It always amazes me:

that when a large group of people gets together and pool money to cover risk of bad health it's called private insurance.

And then when a large group of people get together and pool money to cover risk of bad health it's called socialized medicine.


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The former is by choice, the latter is forced. Not really a puzzler. Quality of care provided/received applies.

 

[Arovetli]

Do you really have choice?

A few big private insurers and one big government all up in bed together.

There's a word for that kind of system. Oh, right. Fascism.


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[Summit]

A few big private insurers and one big government all up in bed together.

There's a word for that kind of system. Oh, right. Fascism.

That is not what Fascism is. Fascism is a form of totalitarianism.

Perhaps you meant a Corporate semi-Oligarchy resulting from governmental regulatory morass and corrupt lobbying?

 

[Arovetli]

More multi factorial than totalitarianism alone.

Make America Great Again.


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[Qulevrius]

Do you really have choice?

A few big private insurers and one big government all up in bed together.

There's a word for that kind of system. Oh, right. Fascism.


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Yes, you do. You can choose to pay for your healthcare insurance, or you can choose not to. With ACA, there's no choice and we're penalized if we don't do their bidding.

And I don't think you really understand what Fascism is.

 

[EpiEMS]

We gotta get our act together as a profession. Then we start dictating the terms for ourselves.

Is this something that reduced/increased Federal involvement in EMS could help/hurt?

 

[Arovetli]

Yes, you do. You can choose to pay for your healthcare insurance, or you can choose not to. With ACA, there's no choice and we're penalized if we don't do their bidding.

And I don't think you really understand what Fascism is.

Why the automatic leap to me not understanding a concept?

You've presented a binary choice as an alternative to mandatory health insurance. Instead of choosing one thing I can choose two. You get better options at Sue Bells Home Town Buffett.




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[Arovetli]

Is this something that reduced/increased Federal involvement in EMS could help/hurt?

I'm of the school of thought that we're all better off if we pool resources and work together.

That frightens many people.

Hypothetical:

I was elected president.

Name for me one reason why I should put resources and increase debt to find EMS? What will I get for my money, so to speak, that I'm not already getting?




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[Qulevrius]

Why the automatic leap to me not understanding a concept?

You've presented a binary choice as an alternative to mandatory health insurance. Instead of choosing one thing I can choose two. You get better options at Sue Bells Home Town Buffett.




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Because you're making unsupported statements. Once again, this isn't an exercise in colourful rhetoric; you can't just throw fancy words around and expect people to take it for face value. And no, you really cannot choose two in this particular case - people who already chose their healthcare plan before ACA came into play, are now forced to pay twice. Only so these mice who couldn't or wouldn't choose before, can have their own little cookie.

You seem to take a particular liking for communist/libertarian ideas (this is me extrapolating from your previous posts), so here's a quote for you: 'Freedom Lies In The Recognition Of Necessity'. I don't recognize any necessity to financially support people who won't do it themselves, am I free to choose/not to choose ?

 

[EpiEMS]

Name for me one reason why I should put resources and increase debt to find EMS? What will I get for my money, so to speak, that I'm not already getting?

Well, that's a fair point. I would say that, hopefully, we could help to reduce preventable deaths, cut down on ER usage (community paramedics doing catheter changes, for example), and spend less on unnecessary transports (e.g. replace BLS IFT with wheelchair vans where possible). But yes, I do see your point - there is not a *clear-cut* benefit/savings unless you have knowledge of what EMS can do.

 

[Qulevrius]

Well, that's a fair point. I would say that, hopefully, we could help to reduce preventable deaths, cut down on ER usage (community paramedics doing catheter changes, for example), and spend less on unnecessary transports (e.g. replace BLS IFT with wheelchair vans where possible). But yes, I do see your point - there is not a *clear-cut* benefit/savings unless you have knowledge of what EMS can do.

Just to expand on this - let's pretend for a moment that we actually want to treat the disorder, instead of addressing the symptoms. What is the nature for the state EMS is in these days ? Is it the overwhelming amount of BS calls that put a strain on the system ? The incredibly low entry level requirements ? The lack of funding or infrastructure ? Can it be possibly related to the healthcare system and if so, in what way ? Finally, what's the prophylactic ?

I mean, we can ***** and moan all we want, but it always addresses some specific issue and I don't think we see the forest for the trees. Plus, if this exchange of ideas could yield anything worth an effort, we could always sum it up and fwd it to NAEMT.

 

[Carlos Danger]

I'm of the school of thought that we're all better off if we pool resources and work together.

That frightens many people.

I don't think there is any evidence that people are "frightened" by the idea of pooling resources and working together. Consider the near universal voluntary participation in things like various types of insurance plans, shopping co-ops, and mutual funds. Consider the fact that for all our faults, Americans are the most charitable folks on earth, by no small margin.

What people don't like is being forced to contribute their hard-earned money towards things that they may even not feel are important (or to contribute financially to programs that other participants don't have to contribute to), especially when such programs are always run by incompetent bureaucrats.

 

[Arovetli]

Versus greedy CEOs?


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