How many survived your EMT class?

Manic_Wombat

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My class started with 28 people, we lost one kid on our first day and I think only 24 people passed the class. I don't know how many others went on to get certified. Just curious what the attrition rate in other people's classes was.
 

apumic

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Mine started around 25-30 and ended up around 15-20. Our attrition was actually quite low compared w/ most in the region (which have about 50-70% attrition rates). I believe, though, that everyone who got through the entire course (in my class) passed. I don't believe anyone actually failed, although we had one kid get kicked out for missing the final (and so was not eligible for the practical)....
 
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tacorican

Forum Ride Along
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The first class I took nearly 6 years ago had 30 Students to begin with. By the end, we had less than 15. The class I took this semester began with 26 and so far down 17. Skill final re-take is next week so will know more how many will pass.
 

rescue99

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The first class I took nearly 6 years ago had 30 Students to begin with. By the end, we had less than 15. The class I took this semester began with 26 and so far down 17. Skill final re-take is next week so will know more how many will pass.

The failure rates ^ are too high. Good educators will seldom lose more than 20%, tops. Rate might be higher on occasion but, not rountinely. Regularly losing half a class tells me I need to look closely at the item analysis. Something isn't quite right. Either the water has too much lead in it or I'm doing something wrong :blush:
 

apumic

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The failure rates ^ are too high. Good educators will seldom lose more than 20%, tops. Rate might be higher on occasion but, not rountinely. Regularly losing half a class tells me I need to look closely at the item analysis. Something isn't quite right. Either the water has too much lead in it or I'm doing something wrong :blush:

It could also tell you students weren't well-prepared for the course. Many freshmen who get into college fail a class or two b/c of a lack of study skills, discipline, etc. It doesn't surprise me that a certification course with zero prereqs and often no application would fail so many students (at least at my school there weren't any prereqs or applications involved). If you think about it, even after application and intense screening, many BSN programs still manage to fail a fair number of their students out (not sure of percentages, but I know it's certainly a decent number at some programs).
 

rescue99

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It could also tell you students weren't well-prepared for the course. Many freshmen who get into college fail a class or two b/c of a lack of study skills, discipline, etc. It doesn't surprise me that a certification course with zero prereqs and often no application would fail so many students (at least at my school there weren't any prereqs or applications involved). If you think about it, even after application and intense screening, many BSN programs still manage to fail a fair number of their students out (not sure of percentages, but I know it's certainly a decent number at some programs).

I said "educators will seldom lose" more than 20% of a class to failure. Sometimes we lose more and the causes do vary. Experience tells me that if I am routinely losing too many students, I need to apply multiple validation methods looking for all potential causes. If no reasonable causes are identified I assume it's in the water that semester. ^_^
 

apumic

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I said "educators will seldom lose" more than 20% of a class to failure. Sometimes we lose more and the causes do vary. Experience tells me that if I am routinely losing too many students, I need to apply multiple validation methods looking for all potential causes. If no reasonable causes are identified I assume it's in the water that semester. ^_^


Failure of students is rarely the educator's fault, so I'm not quite sure I get your clarification that "educators will seldom lose >20% of students." Students are responsible for whether they succeed or not. A good student will succeed in spite of poor instruction not because of average or excellent instruction. If you routinely lose a lot of students then there are a variety of possibilities -- it could be your teaching style, it could be the course materials or textbook, it could be the students (i.e., lack of screening/necessary prerequisite skills and/or coursework and/or aptitude), etc. Obviously, there is a problem, yes; however, in EMS education I wonder if the problem might be more of a systemic one than one with the educators themselves, although the educators themselves may be disadvantaged systemically by their own training as educators.
 

mct601

RN/NRP
422
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We started around 25 and I think we're down to like 16. I think all but 2 or 3 won't have a hard time finalizing the class. No one actually flunked out of the class, alot of people just quit. Wish I could throw away $500...
 

rescue99

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Failure of students is rarely the educator's fault, so I'm not quite sure I get your clarification that "educators will seldom lose >20% of students." Students are responsible for whether they succeed or not. A good student will succeed in spite of poor instruction not because of average or excellent instruction. If you routinely lose a lot of students then there are a variety of possibilities -- it could be your teaching style, it could be the course materials or textbook, it could be the students (i.e., lack of screening/necessary prerequisite skills and/or coursework and/or aptitude), etc. Obviously, there is a problem, yes; however, in EMS education I wonder if the problem might be more of a systemic one than one with the educators themselves, although the educators themselves may be disadvantaged systemically by their own training as educators.

Could be a lot of things on either side. It is my opinion that when the failure rate is too high, too often with the same educator(s), evaluation is needed.
I am not defending students nor educators. I do believe we have an obligation to look for causes sometimes.
 

ExpatMedic0

MS, NRP
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I am a Paramedic now, But I have hit every level along the way, First Responder, EMT-B,EMT-I, and then EMT-P.

I would say we never lost more than 1 or 2 people for every 10 except for my Intermediate class (the first one that I also failed) We lost %60 who failed the first half, the teacher was then fired soon after, which is the way it should be.
 

Micro_87

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My class started of with approx 25-30 and we ended up with about 20, but the strange thing was that alot of them left close to the end of the class and one didn't even show up on the last day for written or practicals.
 

Seaglass

Lesser Ambulance Ape
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We started with maybe 30. A few dropped out soon and a few failed the final/practical, so maybe 25 graduated. We were never told who passed and failed--I'm just estimating based on all I know. I think all of us got the NREMT (assuming nobody failed--don't know) and maybe 20 got the state test. No idea why the others didn't, unless they were planning to only practice in another state.
 

Mountain Res-Q

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23 started. 5 FFs dropped out (not kicked out) by the midterm due to large school loads that made it hard to handle the "extra" EMT stuff, while another CNA dropped out when she was forced to move 6 sessions into the class. One more was kicked out after midterm for scoring a 17% on the test. However, in 10 years as an instructor, our teacher never had someone survive midterm and then fail the class. So, out of 23 that started 16 passed the class. Also, on 10 years, he only had 1 person pass the final and then fail the state test for certification. All in all, the classl had a 30% fail rate, and most of these dropped out of their own accord within the first 40 hours of the class; and the EMT program was 200 hours (not counting the optional A&P, Cardiology, and PreMedic that all non-FFs took).

Of course, after that instructor retired the new instructor (someone I have issues with) has a ~75% fail rate... and those that pass the class have a hard time passing the state test and are not exactly knowledgable... actually, they are not even fit to touch a BP cuff! Last year she had a class that started with 25 and only 6 passed the class (4 passed the state test)!!!

So, rescue99, IMHO, I agree. While students need to take resposibility for their own education, teachers that see a consistantly high failure rate are doing something wrong. However, I think 20% is asking a bit much of the instructor as no instructor can compinsate for an inability on the students part to learn. My instructor (whom I loved) was investigated twice by the state for his high success rates; trust me, it was not needed... he challenged us, but knew how to teach so that we actually knew our stuff; not just enough to pass some dumb test. On the other hand, this new instructor (while having a great medical reputation) needs to stop teaching; although after dealing with some former students of hers, I would be ashamed to call what she does 'teaching".
 
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MusicMedic

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Our class started with about 34 people, after the first few weeks dropped down to about 28, after the first round of practicals dropped down to 22
i hope only a handful take the NREMT test, less competition in the job market

i think the reason soo many people dropped in my class is the fact that they were taking too many units and couldnt handle the class. its labeled as an "elective" at my college so it may lead people to beleve its a piece of cake class, but it really isnt.

alas, we shall see who makes it to the final and beyond!!
 

medichopeful

Flight nurse, ground paramedic
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All but around 5. They died during scenarios, sometimes with EMT assistance. :p;)
 

DigitalSoCal

Forum Crew Member
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We started with around 52, and by the time practicals came around we were at about 40.. I think about 37 of those received their certificate of completion
 

Achromatic

Forum Lieutenant
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Our class of 30 (all FD, run by county), has lost 2, one who failed out after a 57% on his Airway exam...

as for how many will pass? We sit county protocol, state practicals on Saturday, and state written on Monday, so we shall see. I think at least 3-4 more will fail out on those.
 

EMS25

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We started with 42 and in the end there where 19 left to graduate.
We lost 5 in the first two weeks and over 10 after the midterm.
I know from this 19 people at least 12 didn't pass the NREMT the first time.
 

mcgrubbs

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Just finished my Basic class three days ago. The Basic program here has an established 50% failure rate. My particular class started at 30 and ended with 16. Another B class ended w/ 10 after starting w/ 25.

In my class, those who failed just didn't have it. Not one of those did I think they belonged there.

This is at a school with a very well respected program.
 

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