Airway Junkie
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This topic has certainly been beaten to death and gone off topic more than once.
How many lights is too many?
- Thread starter Nocturnatrix
- Start date
I'm just curious to see what people think about lights on POVs. How many is too many? Is it OK for your car to look like a red and white Christmas tree moving at high speeds, or is the minimum safe number of lights the way to go?
Personally I'm a fan of 2 in the front and 1 in the back, as 360 degree lighting isn't necessary here for POVs. At first i had only 1 in the front, but decided that it wasn't enough during the day, and it would also suck to get rear ended on a scene, so 1 was put in back...OK fine, I had an amber light there to begin with, but we're not talking about amber lights.
Personally I'm a fan of 2 in the front and 1 in the back, as 360 degree lighting isn't necessary here for POVs. At first i had only 1 in the front, but decided that it wasn't enough during the day, and it would also suck to get rear ended on a scene, so 1 was put in back...OK fine, I had an amber light there to begin with, but we're not talking about amber lights.
JPINFV
Gadfly
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I'm a fan on the "factory standard" quanity of lights. The "factory standard" is the number and color of the lights when the car leaves the factory. Any more should be left to real emergency vehicles.
Thats fine and good unless people are expected to be able to respond to the station or scene in their personal vehicles.
360 degree visibility is necessary ANYWHERE a vehicle operates with emergency lighting. Its basic safety, why wouldn't you want to be as visible as possible?
emtwacker710
Forum Captain
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yea I agree with the 1st post here, 2 in the front and 1 in the back, like my vehicle moves traffic fine with grille lights and a dashlight in the front and I'm working on getting a rear warning light for when I first respond for the fire company...as for making your vehicle look like a rolling christmas tree....I'm a bit against that...as some cops in your area my be also..lol
KEVD18
Forum Deputy Chief
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i believe the perfect number of lights in a pov is 0
Here the definition of emergency lighting is red, white, or blue lights. Amber lights are not considered an emergency color. My 4 ways (blinkers) have been modified to flash in different patterns (much like backup lights on a police vehicle, but for non-EMS work)...I don't consider them emergency lights because they are amber. There are turn signal lights on the side of my car, so I guess I do have 360 lighting...just not red. If the rules were ever changed, my Jeep would then not fit the standards, and i would have to get some red lights to stick on the side of my car.
Now that I think about it, I should have put this in EMS humor...I wasn't going for a serious discussion on vehicle safety and proper vehicle lighting...just opinions on what is over the top...
Why is this your opinion?
I think if someone has lights on their car because they are an EMT now, and they can, it is absurd and shouldn't be allowed. However, in many places statons aren't manned and it is policy for people to respond to the scene or station (whichever is closer) in their POVs. While it is not necessary to use lights every time, there are situations where it is absolutely necessary.
KEVD18
Forum Deputy Chief
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as has been said over and over again, the time you save responding to the scene/station isnt worth the risk you put yourself and the general public in. in a marked EV its different. its somewhat difficult to miss a heavy rescue, engine, ladder etc coming down the road. dont get me wrong, people still do. but these are the people that shouldnt be out in public without a helmet and a guide. now take your 1997 pos; throw a few galls specials onboard and go rocketing around. its not the same thing at all. plus its been proven that people dont drive the same with and without lights. faster speed, less awareness, rolling stops(if they make the effort at all) etc.
now, i will freely admit that when i first started i went all out. lights in every spot i could fit them, siren, radios and scanner. the whole nine. then, as i grew up, i started racheting it down to nothing. up until recently, i still had some of the gear in the truck, but it wasnt connected. then, when i had a free day and the motivation, out it all came. my truck is now back to factory. you may think of this as hypocritical and thats fine. i see whackerism as a rite of passage that everyone goes through. some people wise up and grow out of it, some never do.
a final note as food for thought: call your insurance company and ask them if your covered if you crash while responding to a call. chances are, they will tell you: "HELL NO. NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM". then, do some research into the statistics(R/r posted a link in one of the 30 active topics about lights in pov's) regarding pov collisions. after reviewing that data and figuring out how much it could cost you, decide whether or not saving a minute in response time is worth it.
now, i will freely admit that when i first started i went all out. lights in every spot i could fit them, siren, radios and scanner. the whole nine. then, as i grew up, i started racheting it down to nothing. up until recently, i still had some of the gear in the truck, but it wasnt connected. then, when i had a free day and the motivation, out it all came. my truck is now back to factory. you may think of this as hypocritical and thats fine. i see whackerism as a rite of passage that everyone goes through. some people wise up and grow out of it, some never do.
a final note as food for thought: call your insurance company and ask them if your covered if you crash while responding to a call. chances are, they will tell you: "HELL NO. NOT IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM". then, do some research into the statistics(R/r posted a link in one of the 30 active topics about lights in pov's) regarding pov collisions. after reviewing that data and figuring out how much it could cost you, decide whether or not saving a minute in response time is worth it.
actually, if you are in an accident, found to be speeding, you are covered by insurance. your rates may rise, but you are covered.
please show me something that says you are not covered if you have a light on your car... and if you are not speeding? still not covered?
there are many good arguments against green lights... your insurance line of thought is not. apparently, you have not known anyone who has had to call.
Driving an emergency vehicle with lights and/or sirens...well lights or lights and sirens changes the way a person drives regardless of the size, paintjob, and owner of the vehicle. A solution to the problem of people driving different with lights and sirens could be better EVOC. EVOC as it is most places is only somewhat effective, but more comprehensive training, and requirements on the state or federal level for comprehensive EVOC training would greatly reduce common driving errors, such as rolling lights, driving with excessive speeds, and being less aware of your surrounding. I don't think anyone should be allowed near any emergency vehicle without EVOC training...ever, and especially so with an unmarked POV with a few lights.
Pittsburgh Proud
Forum Lieutenant
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This was a good post. More should read this man's post and think about it. Very true.
Thank you Sir for saying so.
Must be for ROSC, definately not the actual discharge percentage.............
I too am interested in clarification of this bold statement...............
Outbac1
Forum Asst. Chief
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I'd like to know what the "SAVE" critera is as well. I've seen a lot of pulses come back only to dissappear on the way out to the truck or enroute to the hospital.
i wont use my lights for a fire call but i do for ems and even then not all the time depends on the severity of the call also in my full time job i have had firepersonal use their lights to get around me only to see them pull into the gas station/bar/or their own driveway :excl::excl::excl:
JPINFV
Gadfly
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emt666, why do you hate periods?
emtwacker710
Forum Captain
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yea..good point..there are quite a few threads that mention POV's and lights together in the title
Well, I'll tell you for a fact that Allstate will NOT cover you unless you have a specific rider stipulating your emergency response utilization (i.e. commercial or emergency vehicle). Geico, State Farm, and Farmers also require notification, but will provide coverage with or with the rider (depends on the region). Again, your insurance company MUST know what you are doing and you more than likely will pay a higher rate, however as you assume the increased and usually unnecessary risk, you get to pay for it. Want to lose your coverage quickly, then don't tell them and go out in your whacker-mobile and wreck going to the BS grass fire or 4 y/o with a runny nose. If you have Allstate, your pi#@ out of luck, and the rest will more than likely drop you like a heart attack.
An interesting question though, why, if there is soooooo much of a need for the lights, are your respective departments not providing you with the appropriate insurance coverage? Some of you say your department requires it, then make them pay for it!
Can't wait to hear the excuses on this one....................