Arkymedic
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oh oh oh!!! what about fire medics vs ems medics and then there is private vs government too...
How many lights is too many?
- Thread starter Nocturnatrix
- Start date
oh oh oh!!! what about fire medics vs ems medics and then there is private vs government too...
Arkymedic
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LMFAO Thank you MrConspiracy this made my day.
TgerFoxMark
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I have to agree... But the last 3 got me rolling.
Thanks for brightening my day.
Thanks for brightening my day.
Arkymedic
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Okay Y'all....In the last 3 weeks there have been 3 seperate threads started on this topic. And in the last 3 weeks this poor horse has been beat to death, buried....dug up got his tail whooped again.
I merged the 3 threads.
PLEASE!!! For the love of all that is EMS.....lets not start a new thread on lights on POV's!! Use this one.....and keep in mind....horses don't have 9 lives....cats do!!
JPINFV
Gadfly
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http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0TwDt...7nGFtSe74!5sVUE*1!vg/beating-a-dead-horse.gif
The world needs more glue.
The world needs more glue.
CFRBryan347768
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i just bought a massive i mean MASsive amount of lights for my Wrangler, but i have absolutely no intent of using them cause their going on my "show" vehicle.
"Show" vehicle? What is that?
CFRBryan347768
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my vehicle that i put on display when all the car junkies round up
daedalus
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depends on where you live. i have seen Mercy Air lunch birds to bring a patient to a hospital 6 miles away. Thats LA County for you. Without lights and sirens, you will not get by LA drivers to your accident. Hell, every time I run code in LA county, I get the finger atleast once. People out here will NOT move for you with out lights, even to change lanes. Code 3 is a necessary evil out here.
firemedic7982
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Here we go.
... I guess Im just in a bad mood today.
To those of you who are doing the whole "not this thread again, and the whole use the search feature" ... Shut IT! New people bring new perspectives to the table. If you are so tired of reading the same type of conversation... THEN STOP READING IT. There is no reason to be condescending. And if you are that tired of reading the same questions... then Im sure there are at least two people out there that are tired of reading your endless banter. Your opinion is no more important than the next guys.
#2 - To the people on this site who think that there answers are a concrete absolute for all services, all situations, and all scenarious ... You my friend are the biggest "water head" of them all. It's time for you to hang it up. I mean after all you know everything there is to know.
I have lights on my POV. I live in a VERY heavilly populated area. I am a FT paid medic. I am part of our first responder program. Don't knock the Vollies folks. They love the job more than you do. Someone mentioned in this post a page or so back that it doesnt matter whether you go pov to the scene because you have no equipment to do anything. Thats not the case. I carry a Full size Jump Bag , with an integrated Airway bag, a D cylinder, and a Top o Line Zoll AED with 12 lead ECG interface. The ALS first responders Carry The same equip PLUS A complete set of 1st and 2nd round drugs, IV setups, etc. Our Sups that have jump bags in their POV's carry all that PLUS RSI capability. Now tell me that a First responder isnt capable of helping PTA of the Ambulance.
The debate over Lights on POVS is an old, but ongoing one. You could argue it either way. But first responders CAN and DO make a difference.
... I guess Im just in a bad mood today.
To those of you who are doing the whole "not this thread again, and the whole use the search feature" ... Shut IT! New people bring new perspectives to the table. If you are so tired of reading the same type of conversation... THEN STOP READING IT. There is no reason to be condescending. And if you are that tired of reading the same questions... then Im sure there are at least two people out there that are tired of reading your endless banter. Your opinion is no more important than the next guys.
#2 - To the people on this site who think that there answers are a concrete absolute for all services, all situations, and all scenarious ... You my friend are the biggest "water head" of them all. It's time for you to hang it up. I mean after all you know everything there is to know.
I have lights on my POV. I live in a VERY heavilly populated area. I am a FT paid medic. I am part of our first responder program. Don't knock the Vollies folks. They love the job more than you do. Someone mentioned in this post a page or so back that it doesnt matter whether you go pov to the scene because you have no equipment to do anything. Thats not the case. I carry a Full size Jump Bag , with an integrated Airway bag, a D cylinder, and a Top o Line Zoll AED with 12 lead ECG interface. The ALS first responders Carry The same equip PLUS A complete set of 1st and 2nd round drugs, IV setups, etc. Our Sups that have jump bags in their POV's carry all that PLUS RSI capability. Now tell me that a First responder isnt capable of helping PTA of the Ambulance.
The debate over Lights on POVS is an old, but ongoing one. You could argue it either way. But first responders CAN and DO make a difference.
Well said ... I have said for some time now, "It ain't the lights in the grill, nor the labels on the hood, it's the brain in the cranium that make the difference."
JPINFV
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All the brains in the cranium mean nothing, though, if they're delayed because they're involved in an automobile accident.
TgerFoxMark
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begin rant.
well, the ones with the brains wont wreck, because they FOLLOW THE RULES.
stopping and looking before light running.
not being a daredevil...
YOU know the same rules we are SUPPOSED to use, even in department rigs?
and if you look at youtube... all of the wrecks POV/Dpt rig, involve SOMEONE not following them?
A POV with lights (/siren) can be operated safely, but still get you through the 3 miles of traffic snarl caused by the wreck.
And yes, a POV with lights, but nothing inside is WORTHLESS.
but one that has equipment, even basic gear, can play a MAJOR role.
Lights are beaten to death. lets try a new direction. BRAINS. if you do not have one, get out of the service. you are a liability. but if you have one and USE IT, you are an asset.
End Rant.
well, the ones with the brains wont wreck, because they FOLLOW THE RULES.
stopping and looking before light running.
not being a daredevil...
YOU know the same rules we are SUPPOSED to use, even in department rigs?
and if you look at youtube... all of the wrecks POV/Dpt rig, involve SOMEONE not following them?
A POV with lights (/siren) can be operated safely, but still get you through the 3 miles of traffic snarl caused by the wreck.
And yes, a POV with lights, but nothing inside is WORTHLESS.
but one that has equipment, even basic gear, can play a MAJOR role.
Lights are beaten to death. lets try a new direction. BRAINS. if you do not have one, get out of the service. you are a liability. but if you have one and USE IT, you are an asset.
End Rant.
can anyone find an actual article of someone involved in an MVA because of the POV lights? I keep seeing this brought up as an argument but yet to see any proof.
Im also begining to see that the jaded paid professionals just like to hear them selves cry and whine about how this is wrong, and that is wrong, and Vollies this and EMT-Bs that. We are all in this for the same reason, why is that so hard to remember?? So do it for the paycheck too while others do it just for the networking of meeting new people and helping out the town they live in. Enough with the pissin contest of I went to a longer school or Ive got these many letters after my name. We all start from the bottom and alot of the attitudes keep people from wanting to go any further up the EMS ladder.
Im also begining to see that the jaded paid professionals just like to hear them selves cry and whine about how this is wrong, and that is wrong, and Vollies this and EMT-Bs that. We are all in this for the same reason, why is that so hard to remember?? So do it for the paycheck too while others do it just for the networking of meeting new people and helping out the town they live in. Enough with the pissin contest of I went to a longer school or Ive got these many letters after my name. We all start from the bottom and alot of the attitudes keep people from wanting to go any further up the EMS ladder.
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While not involving lights in a POV, this thread is related.
http://www.emtlife.com/showthread.php?t=6297
Thank you for the article, but may I ask the question, how is that situation any different than an ambulance accident caused by a Medic/EMT who was hung over from the night before, or sleepy from a long shift?
I think it's worth noting that approximately 75% of the fire protection in this country is covered by volunteer fire departments. I have no proof, but I wish someone would do a study comparing the number of accidents by volunteers vs. paid fire departments. I would venture to guess that they are higher in paid departments.
I think it's irresponsible to assume that just because someone has light on their POV or carries medical gear in their vehicle they are not a responsible person, or a valuable part of the Fire/EMS system in this country.
An ambulance or a fire truck his nothing more than a vehicle with a driver who is a person just like you and I. The vehicle is not issue, it's the person, their attitude and their ability to make sound decisions. The young man in the article posted above is no different than the Medic/EMT/Firefighter who steals drugs from the company they work for, or the policeman who takes his SWAT firearms into Hooters to show off to the ladies.
We all have a brain. If you can't use it, you do not belong in the profession. This job is not for everyone.
I am a volunteer firefighter and a volunteer EMT in the county where I live in Montana. I serve my community because I care about my community, not the paycheck. I own my own business that brings in nearly a half a million dollars a year. I don't do my volunteer service for the glory or the recognition. I do it because I want to be a valuable part of my rural community.
I work in a rural area outside a sizable city in Montana and I can relate MANY stories where I have taken my personal vehicle into places where ambulances couldn't go because of road conditions or weather and had to use my POV to bring the patient to the ambulance.
There is a place for lights on POV. It may not work in your community or department, but they have a place.
Trashing those who have them, and use them responsibly, is an affront to those who are our brothers and sisters in the service.
I think it's worth noting that approximately 75% of the fire protection in this country is covered by volunteer fire departments. I have no proof, but I wish someone would do a study comparing the number of accidents by volunteers vs. paid fire departments. I would venture to guess that they are higher in paid departments.
I think it's irresponsible to assume that just because someone has light on their POV or carries medical gear in their vehicle they are not a responsible person, or a valuable part of the Fire/EMS system in this country.
An ambulance or a fire truck his nothing more than a vehicle with a driver who is a person just like you and I. The vehicle is not issue, it's the person, their attitude and their ability to make sound decisions. The young man in the article posted above is no different than the Medic/EMT/Firefighter who steals drugs from the company they work for, or the policeman who takes his SWAT firearms into Hooters to show off to the ladies.
We all have a brain. If you can't use it, you do not belong in the profession. This job is not for everyone.
I am a volunteer firefighter and a volunteer EMT in the county where I live in Montana. I serve my community because I care about my community, not the paycheck. I own my own business that brings in nearly a half a million dollars a year. I don't do my volunteer service for the glory or the recognition. I do it because I want to be a valuable part of my rural community.
I work in a rural area outside a sizable city in Montana and I can relate MANY stories where I have taken my personal vehicle into places where ambulances couldn't go because of road conditions or weather and had to use my POV to bring the patient to the ambulance.
There is a place for lights on POV. It may not work in your community or department, but they have a place.
Trashing those who have them, and use them responsibly, is an affront to those who are our brothers and sisters in the service.
Last edited by a moderator:
JPINFV
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Considering that there's also a psychological aspect to any use of emergency lights:
http://firefightingnews.com/article-us.cfm?articleID=45123
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face200330.html
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/fire/reports/face9944.html
Does your community not deserve full time paramedic level care?
JPINFV
Gadfly
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Want to compare traffic density and call volume between, say, Southern California and Rural Montana? I'm going to be willing to go out on a limb and say that areas with more traffic and areas with more calls are going to have more accidents because there's simply a higher chance of being involved in an accident. Using drivers of equal skill, the one in the city would probably have a higher chance of being in an accident on each response. Tie that into a greater number of responses and you have more accidents. Thus, to really compare paid v volunteer, care would have to be taken to accurately control for the confounding variables of traffic density and number of responses. Essentially any straight up accident v accident comparison would be comparing apples to oranges.
I don't think it's that big of a leap to make that judgement on someone who is willing to "invest" thousands of dollars into their car, but not thousands of dollars into furthering their education. I also don't consider it that big of a leap to say that most providers that have flashy lights on their POV are working under a 110hr training cert (NHTSA standard, you can 'guess' the level). Anyone who thinks that 110 hours is enough time to accurately learn to provide emergency medical care is fooling themselves and a danger to their patients.
While I completely agree with this statement, you've just removed a rather large amount of providers from the field. The pool does need a healthy dose of chlorine though.
Brothers and sisters? EMS is about providing emergency medical care in the prehosptial environment. It is not a social club.
TgerFoxMark
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I think the entire gene pool needs to be shocked. Its kinda a murky green brown clody color.
back to the topic at hand, i think that all of us in EMS have one strong tie to each other. -B, -I, -P, CFR/ ect. We all "hopefully!" got into EMS to help our communities. (def. not for the money here)
And i know that FF's get a bad rap here, but they see all in their profession as their brothers and sisters. I see no reason we should not feel the same.
As I feel, EMS is a Family. (for someone who grew up without one, that means alot)
volly or paid, doesnt matter. we all do the best we can with what we have.
In my case, with my Lights, they are on a 4x4. Its lifted, and yes its a truck.
my volly group has no free cash to afford something to get into some of the rougher areas around here. so we use vehicles like mine to get the pt. to an ambulance.
And, yes, i am the "wackjob" who owns an old ambulance that he kitted out to be a first aid stand for events. Its controlled by the volly squad EMT's and Medics when in use, and doesnt take our main rig out of service for an event. thus protecting the greatest amount of our area.
Yes, I live Close to Indianapolis. Public and private services run there. WE STILL use volenteers In the big city if we have no choice.
With Events like the 500, you cannot find enough people to staff that nightmare on the paid services.
There is a place for everyone, volly or paid, in our family.
back to the topic at hand, i think that all of us in EMS have one strong tie to each other. -B, -I, -P, CFR/ ect. We all "hopefully!" got into EMS to help our communities. (def. not for the money here)
And i know that FF's get a bad rap here, but they see all in their profession as their brothers and sisters. I see no reason we should not feel the same.
As I feel, EMS is a Family. (for someone who grew up without one, that means alot)
volly or paid, doesnt matter. we all do the best we can with what we have.
In my case, with my Lights, they are on a 4x4. Its lifted, and yes its a truck.
my volly group has no free cash to afford something to get into some of the rougher areas around here. so we use vehicles like mine to get the pt. to an ambulance.
And, yes, i am the "wackjob" who owns an old ambulance that he kitted out to be a first aid stand for events. Its controlled by the volly squad EMT's and Medics when in use, and doesnt take our main rig out of service for an event. thus protecting the greatest amount of our area.
Yes, I live Close to Indianapolis. Public and private services run there. WE STILL use volenteers In the big city if we have no choice.
With Events like the 500, you cannot find enough people to staff that nightmare on the paid services.
There is a place for everyone, volly or paid, in our family.
aussieemt1980
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Some of these are a bit too much, but would look great on an operational truck....