How many lights is too many?

Most drivers here do 10 + over the speed limit. If you have the light you tend to go much faster. I don't have the light cause I can get to my building fairly quick without l+s.
 
Using of lights & sirens for non emergency use

Yip, we have them here to, all the time!!

I would have to say that it is more the blue lights than the red lights out here, and these lights are often used to get them through hectic traffic. Pretty much anyone who is anyone can stick some emergency lights in(side) their own vehicles, however should you place any lights on the outside of your vehicle, you would have to register it as an emergency vehicle, otherwise you could win yourself a pair of iron bangles!!

There are a lot of people who have emergency lights in thier vehicles and stop on scene long after the emergency services has arrived. They pick these calls up on the radio, and that is not an issued radio, but rather a scanner and then turn out. Yes, i understand that we do not always have enough recources to go around, but the call will be serviced, irrespective. We call them weekend warriors...

Just a post to let you know whats happening this side of the world.
 
You said this is a rumor. Can you prove it? Sounds like it might be an urban legend.

Every hospital/agency/service/career area always has someone with Chronic Rectocerebral Inversion Syndrome and who suffers Acute Exacerbations of this disease from time to time. These are the ones who will kill someone eventually.
 
now if i was on a firedepartment yeah sure i would love to have lights and sirens because i think they are cool lol. but i think they really should only be on the emergency vehicles and maybe only the officers with the lights and sirens on the POV. say if some sort of diaster like say a tournado just hit there area and they need to do traffic control and there rigs are being used in other area but other than that only officers.

now there was a study done in normal traffic conditions that you would only get to the scence like some 45 seconds faster. now is it really worth it getting to the FD 45 secs faster sure you may not make the first engine out. but if your needed you'll make the next rig out.

so take your time and get to the department safely
 
ok... plenty of posts bashing vollies and their lights... very unsafe..

i get it... although, i know of no bad outcomes anywhere near my area...

BUT WHY IS IT...

ambulance safety, yes the rigs with the lights and sirens, is a major problem in this country... very UNSAFE operations... perhaps, we should re-evaluate the use of lights and sirens, not on pov's, but on the emergency vehicles themselves...

there IS a real problem here...
 
This is completely my opinion, but I also believe that the more lights and sirens are used, the more likely a person is to drive unsafely even without lights.

Kind of like when you drive on a 70mph highway for 6 hrs, then get off on a country road, 55mph seems like a snail-crawl. In the same way, it seems that the longer you drive with the lights and sirens, the more likely you would be to drive a bit more aggressively without them.

I could see in the future all L&S having some sort of computer port and departments requiring downloading of L&S use/checking against actual calls.

Be safe guys, we need you *all*.
-B
 
skyemt said:
ok... plenty of posts bashing vollies and their lights... very unsafe..

i get it... although, i know of no bad outcomes anywhere near my area...

BUT WHY IS IT...

ambulance safety, yes the rigs with the lights and sirens, is a major problem in this country... very UNSAFE operations... perhaps, we should re-evaluate the use of lights and sirens, not on pov's, but on the emergency vehicles themselves...

there IS a real problem here...
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Actually there is many reported accidents r/t injuries and deaths from POV with l/s. Since they are not really considered a "true emergency vehicle" it is overlooked many times. Check out Volunteer Fireman Insurance website to see their promotion of safety in POV's. it is alarming how many accidents there are out there.

Sorry, I will not honor POV's with lights and sirens and pull over. I don't trust anyone with such. Even our undercover vehicles in my state must be manned a fully uniformed person in a unmarked unit. Too many yahoo's out there.

R/r 911
 
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Ridryder911 said:
Sorry, I will not honor POV's with lights and sirens and pull over. I don't trust anyone with such. Even our undercover vehicles in my state must be manned a fully uniformed person in a unmarked unit. Too many yahoo's out there.

R/r 911
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i think you run the chance of getting yourself in trouble at somepoint with that attitude. because not every "cop" or some one in LE is in uniform or in a marked car. for example detectives are usually in an unmarked car with there uniform only consisting of a badge on the hip and a gun on the hip and maybe a polo and ive seen it. now to know what car is truly a unmarked police car. i think would be extremely hard because ive seen a viraity of cop cars and other "unmarked" cars. ive seen the chevy mailbu as a police car. i remember once when i lived back in IL there was a state trooper that we passed he had a guy pulled over in a mom and dad mini-van what this guy was doing was acting like he was pulled over or broke down or something and he would pull people over. and he was in FULL trooper uniform with there fancy hat and everything

so to say that you wont give right of way to any POV or what you think is a POV i think your setting your self up for problems in the future.

i dont mean to jump you just going on what i know.......
 
Detectives usually do not respond with lights and sirens or do traffic work. In my area we have determined that most detective work can await for them to travel safely. Really, will the homicide get any worse or the robbery get worse? As well, those are usually concealed type and usually do not have a mounted light bar on top of their Yugo or 4 X 4 Dodge Hemi.

Usually, I can detect a city type vehicle than the "Billy Bob Rescuer" with his P.O.V. Again, I am talking about in my area alone. It is illegal to have lights and sirens on any POV's and yes the state Fire Service is about 80% volunteer. State Attorney General ruled that private POV's are just that, private and unless they are owned and insured by that Government identity they should not be considered an Emergency Vehicle.

As well, to prevent placebo cops that have been known to attack, rape and even kill people, all officers and those representing an official capacity has to be in full uniform to make a stop. I would suggest all states to consider such action. There is no reason for a Detective to be working traffic, undercover.

Sorry, L/S only saves a few seconds in recognized emergency vehicles, and truthfully studies continue that it might be warranted to remove them altogether. I have read at one time some cities are performing such studies and have so far reported that they actually arrive faster without lights and sirens.

I do wonder though, if we removed the L/S on how many EMT's we would have?

R/r 911
 
yeah i didnt mean to jump you or anything like that just going with what i knew.

now thats a good point about what would happen if the lights were removed because i know a couple people who joined just to be able to go fast and go woo woo with there hair on fire. now dont get me wrong i love going lights and sirens also but thats not why i joined EMS i joined because i wanted to help people start a career (and get out of fast food) and to go fast and go woo woo. and i would be a little disappointed if they removed it because im still young and young in EMS were im young dumb, full of adrenaline and other stuff lol but i wouldnt leave EMS.

now i wonder if there would ever be problems with PT's or family members when they call the ambulance and there dad or grandpa is arrested in the bathroom after his morning glory. and they are waiting outside to guide the ambualnce in and they see the ambulance just taking its time. no light no sirens. i think there would be a lot of problems because with some people im sure its a relaxing feeling when they hear the ambulance's siren and then see it turn the corner. and the feeling of help is finally here is a good feeling. i could see lawsuits with that saying that they took to long to respond because they didnt run hot L/S to my fathers aid
 
milhouse said:
yeah i didnt mean to jump you or anything like that just going with what i knew.

now thats a good point about what would happen if the lights were removed because i know a couple people who joined just to be able to go fast and go woo woo with there hair on fire. now dont get me wrong i love going lights and sirens also but thats not why i joined EMS i joined because i wanted to help people start a career (and get out of fast food) and to go fast and go woo woo. and i would be a little disappointed if they removed it because im still young and young in EMS were im young dumb, full of adrenaline and other stuff lol but i wouldnt leave EMS.

now i wonder if there would ever be problems with PT's or family members when they call the ambulance and there dad or grandpa is arrested in the bathroom after his morning glory. and they are waiting outside to guide the ambualnce in and they see the ambulance just taking its time. no light no sirens. i think there would be a lot of problems because with some people im sure its a relaxing feeling when they hear the ambulance's siren and then see it turn the corner. and the feeling of help is finally here is a good feeling. i could see lawsuits with that saying that they took to long to respond because they didnt run hot L/S to my fathers aid
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you can't have it both ways... it is either about perception, or safety...
if it's perception, than nothing wrong with POV's having a light...

if it's about safety, than you must examine the safety of running rigs with lights and sirens, for the same concerns as POV's... if seconds don't matter, than why should an ambulance blast through intersections with lights and sirens? totally unsafe, and the accidents are proving it.

like i said, you can't have it both ways....
 
Ridryder911 said:
Sorry, L/S only saves a few seconds in recognized emergency vehicles, and truthfully studies continue that it might be warranted to remove them altogether. I have read at one time some cities are performing such studies and have so far reported that they actually arrive faster without lights and sirens.
R/r 911
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Eh, I dont know about a certified emergency vehicle being faster responding w/o lights, I cant really think of a time I've thought "gee, woulda got here faster without the lights" Now, I usually dont run my sirens at night, or when we get on the highway, but in city they work pretty well. I think it all comes down to P.E.B.S.S. (problem exists between seat and steering wheel.) As far as personal vehicles, I can understand their usefulness, though think they are overrated. I think they should be permitted mainly for EMS response, when seconds/minutes actually do matter. If someone is having a massive MI, arterial bleed, or somthing of that nature, they dont have 10 minutes to wait for me to get out of traffic if I'm the tech on call. Now, I'm not saying minutes dont matter in a fire, its just (barring an entrapment) most fire scenes take hours to control, so your span of time to respond is much broader.

For the record, I'm both a paid and volunteer EMT, and an ER tech
 
I have tried responding w/o l/s, but hey... I'm sure you guys dont have the taxis over there... I mean taxis!!!

People dont even give way with l/s, we have tried responding w/o it, but it posed a huge danger for us, especially responding down the emergency lanes. People just quickly pop into the lane to see whats ahead and thats when you have a Roxette concert... crash boom bang!

Our emergency vehicle accident statistics are extremely high in South Africa.
 
My personal opinion is POV's should not have lights and sirens period. Too much potential for accidents. Emergency vehicles should stay within about 20KPH (10-15mph) of the speed limit with suitable road and traffic conditions. One should NEVER blast through an intersection, regardless if the light is red or green. Just because a light is green doesn't mean some knucklehead isn't going to run the red from their side. For red lights and stop signs one should stop, (or at least very nearly so, eg:10-15kph), then proceed with caution. If this were done intersection collisions would be greatly reduced.

The time saved with L&S is not usually that much except maybe on a long run, and then 5 minutes is not a lot. I can't help the pt if I don't get there. We used to have a saying back when I drove rally cars. "To finish first, first finish" It still applies.
 
Outbac1 said:
My personal opinion is POV's should not have lights and sirens period. Too much potential for accidents. Emergency vehicles should stay within about 20KPH (10-15mph) of the speed limit with suitable road and traffic conditions. One should NEVER blast through an intersection, regardless if the light is red or green. Just because a light is green doesn't mean some knucklehead isn't going to run the red from their side. For red lights and stop signs one should stop, (or at least very nearly so, eg:10-15kph), then proceed with caution. If this were done intersection collisions would be greatly reduced.

The time saved with L&S is not usually that much except maybe on a long run, and then 5 minutes is not a lot. I can't help the pt if I don't get there. We used to have a saying back when I drove rally cars. "To finish first, first finish" It still applies.
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from what most have stated, the extra minutes are usually not going to amount to any help for the patient (ok, excluding the most emergent of patients). that being said, why even take the risk of an extra 15 mph over the speed limit?? as it has so eloquently been stated up and down this thread, it is extra risk for little to no benefit. so why take the risk at all?

ambulances are not above the consequences of unnecessary risk.
 
Skyemt good point. For the majority of calls it isn't worth it. However there is the odd call where it could make the difference,eg: child choking. Most of us would push a little for that. Many still drive way too fast on all calls. My hope is to make people think about the speed they use and slow down. We probably can't get them to stop reckless driving overnight but maybe we can slow them down a little. Slower than before is not perfect but it is better than it was.
 
MMiz said:
It's true. Our service pulled several respected studies that showed that medics drove 10+ MPH over the speed limit when running RLS. The siren and flashing created some sort of psychological condition. Interesting read, and I found it to be true.
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Are any of these studies online or in print that I can access? I'd be curious to read them. I would agree (though, only a hypothesis/opinion) that people that use their lights (NOT everyone) do indeed drive differently: faster or not.
 
There are several studies that have been performed that have demonstrated the individuals while going with l/s automatically/impulsively sped up the speed, as well as heart rate increased, respiratory rate increased (basically sympathetic overdrive).

Basically, the studies describe that we actually have to be taught and control ourselves to be more careful and to actually force ourselves to slow down.

Sorry, I do not have the studies name-one can Google to obtain.

R/r 911
 
As someone who works paid in a City and as a Volly out in the county, L+S... kinda Useless on the backroads, INVALUABLE in Rush Hour Traffic. I know the Thrill of the Siren, but more often it gets on my own nerves. However, Lights on POV's at a Scene... good for VIS. helps SOME people see that there is something going on, and avoid. Lights on POV's responding... Useful on my Volly where we can respond to scene, lets pt. know we are here. Worthless in a city. Official rigs get almost no leeway from the public, they pay even less to a POV.
Arguements can be made for both, but in my experiance (yea, i have lights. they protect me when im helping someone. yeah, the rest of the Paid people think i'm nuts. The volleys, accept it as normal. its all based on where you are and what you do...
and a final note, Lights and Siren help get you through the traffic snarl caused by any rush hour highway wreck.

just my 0.02

I may be a wacker in the city service views... but im a pretty normal volly.
 
I use lights to see in the dark. Its an uncommon use in EMS but I do uncommon things.
 
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