How are vollys viewed by paid EMT's?

[crashh]

A few ppl i know where talking and we got into the volly vs. paid thing. Thoughts? :huh:

 

[TatuICU]

A few ppl i know where talking and we got into the volly vs. paid thing. Thoughts? :huh:

I appreciate them. Some I've run into are a little overbearing/Ricky Rescuish, but so are a lot of paid people I've worked with. Again, appreciate them responding and so should the people they're responding to. I think the biggest thing people complain about is their inexperience and their "I would've done it like this" attitude after all is said and done but you have to put that in the proper context.

 

[crashh]

but does the fact they're volunteer necessarily make them inexperienced? I mean, it's according to how many calls, and the extent of the injuries they've had to deal with I would think?

I'm new to this, so just wondering! I have been driving ambulance for 6 or 8 months now and just got done w/my EMT exams. I will continue to be volunteer until I move out of this town, which will hopefully be in about 3 years, after para school, and then nursing school.

 

[DesertMedic66]

Mostly (from what I've heard) they are viewed as the Ricky rescues. If you look on YouTube they are the ones with strobe lights on their vehicles and personal response kits (they may be required to carry them, I have no clue).

We don't have any volunteer fire departments or volunteer ambulance services anywhere in my area so I don't have a personal opinion.

 

[NYMedic828]

I appreciate them. Some I've run into are a little overbearing/Ricky Rescuish, but so are a lot of paid people I've worked with. Again, appreciate them responding and so should the people they're responding to. I think the biggest thing people complain about is their inexperience and their "I would've done it like this" attitude after all is said and done but you have to put that in the proper context.

Hit the nail on the head.


In NYC, there are VERY few volunteer 911 ambulances aside from certain religious based services.

I volunteer back home on my free time, and honestly inexperience is widespread. The problem is that people think they are in fact experienced and therefore are far less open to learning.

I finished paramedic class thinking I was all set for the big leagues but after a week on a busy ambulance I realized how much I truly do not know.

The great thing about the medical field is there is ALWAYS something you can learn. 99.9% of it is above your scope as an EMS provider but regardless, knowledge is power.

People who intubate once every 3 years on a human being if they are "lucky" are very common. Many have and will never intubate a real human being. (At that point, the skill should honestly be removed from the region it is not beneficial.)

I do my best to take what knowledge I can collect and give back what I can to my co-vollies but often times I will have 6 people in the classroom from a department with 50 EMS providers and another 50 firefighters that ride the ambulance.

On the upside, people do realize those who are truly experienced and will listen to them at scenes. (Granted the state requires them to listen to a medic...)

 

[TatuICU]

but does the fact they're volunteer necessarily make them inexperienced?

In MY experience the answer would be yes. Typically volunteer services HERE only exist in areas with ridiculously low call volumes (5-10 a month maybe?) and if you figure a typical EMT-B/I/P (mostly EMT-Bs) only responds to 75% of those calls........

Now, on the other hand we've had some people who I've worked with at paid services that have graciously donated their time at volunteer services but again, in MY experience that generally doesn't last long as these people are usually more or less forced into authoritative positions at the volly due to their experience, and end up throwin the dueces because what started as them just helping out here and there has turned into a second job.

And with the inexperience comes a different attitude as NYMedic stated. It's kind of like that old saying, "The older i get the more I realize that I don't know ****."
My first 6 months as a basic EMT, I realized that I was woefully out of my depth. I thought I was very smart and well prepared, but again the more I saw and did, the less I realized I truly understood. Same in an ICU setting. Experience and making mistakes are the best teachers and unfortunately there's only one way to get experience and learn from mistakes, lol.

 

[TatuICU]

Mostly (from what I've heard) they are viewed as the Ricky rescues. If you look on YouTube they are the ones with strobe lights on their vehicles and personal response kits (they may be required to carry them, I have no clue).

Yeah, that has been an issue here as well. Leave the lights at home and obey traffic laws if in your POV.

 

[NYMedic828]

There are a good few states that allow volunteer personnel to have a full response vehicle with lights and sirens.

Other states, such as my own allow you a flashing blue light that does not permit the breaking of any traffic laws. It is a courtesy if the driver ahead of you feels like yielding.

There are far too many Ricky Rescues around here.

My department does around 650 EMS and 350 fire calls a year. Members are only required to make 20% of those calls if they are off probation. You do not have to make the ambulance to get call credit. 90 calls lets say for the average person PER YEAR, is not enough to gain any credible experience.

 

[Achilles]

In MY experience the answer would be yes. Typically volunteer services HERE only exist in areas with ridiculously low call volumes (5-10 a month maybe?) and if you figure a typical EMT-B/I/P (mostly EMT-Bs) only responds to 75% of those calls........ Our department is volunteer and we're doing 1-2 calls per day, give me a minute......


Ok that comes out to 30-60 per month

Now, on the other hand we've had some people who I've worked with at paid services that have graciously donated their time at volunteer services but again, in MY experience that generally doesn't last long as these people are usually more or less forced into authoritative positions at the volly due to their experiPence, and end up throwin the dueces because what started as them just helping out here and there has turned into a second job.

And with the inexperience comes a different attitude as NYMedic stated. It's kind of like that old saying, "The older i get the more I realize that I don't know sDh!t."
My first 6 months as a basic EMT, I realized that I was woefully out of my depth. I thought I was very smart and well prepared, but again the more I saw and did, the less I realized I truly understood. Same in an ICU setting. Experience and making mistakes are the best teachers and unfortunately there's only one way to get experience and learn from mistakes, lol.

I'm not going to tell you what I think about you saying the volunteers are less expirenced than Paid. We also have all new equipment except for our Gruman which is an 86, but still runs like a champ. We have a dive team, along with an 15' alluminum boat and a 12' zodiac. We also have an airboat and a hovercraft. Along with that we have our dive truck and the 25' trailer which follows close behind it (almost like magic). We get about 400 fires a year. With 34 guys firefighters, All emts. We also do mutual aid for the surrounding cities. Some of our POV's have lights on them, not all of them. A buddy of mine was POC in a city of 55,000. Just because your are paid doesn't mean your smarter than everyone else.

 

[Achilles]

Yeah, that has been an issue here as well. Leave the lights at home and obey traffic laws if in your POV.

And delay response time even more. Without stating that responding priority one causes more accidents. Please explain your logic on what you've just said.

 

[STXmedic]

There are quite a few volly systems around here. One of these is very good. They train heavily, are very professional, and good at what they do. I live rolling up and seeing these guys on scene.

However, that is not the majority of systems down here. Most (down here) are young kids that are very "Ricky rescue" woowoo types, poorly trained, want nothing to do with medical runs, don't do crap on calls other than get in the way, and think they are gods gift to firefighting. I usually groan when I see there units in scene.

I would assume this is very regional dependent though, so take my opinion with a fine grain of salt.

 

[TatuICU]

And delay response time even more. Without stating that responding priority one causes more accidents. Please explain your logic on what you've just said.

You want me to explain the logic behind why its dangerous to have some goober in his personal vehicle putting lights on it and putting th public at risk by disobeying traffic laws? Serious? Well never mind, i guess everyone with a basic license and a Honda accord should light em up and head to that fall call.


1-2 calls a day is still a very low call volume and if there are no medics on those units then you have no frame of reference so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I'm not sure a basic's scope requires the same amount of experience as higher level's to gain an maintain proficiency. Sound a little defensive. Did someone call you Ricky rescue today?

 

[STXmedic]

I'm not going to tell you what I think about you saying the volunteers are less expirenced than Paid. We also have all new equipment except for our Gruman which is an 86, but still runs like a champ. We have a dive team, along with an 15' alluminum boat and a 12' zodiac. We also have an airboat and a hovercraft. Along with that we have our dive truck and the 25' trailer which follows close behind it (almost like magic). We get about 400 fires a year. With 34 guys firefighters, All emts. We also do mutual aid for the surrounding cities. Some of our POV's have lights on them, not all of them. A buddy of mine was POC in a city of 55,000. Just because your are paid doesn't mean your smarter than everyone else.

Also be aware that your system is in the minority. Obviously there are going to be some great, stand-out services, which it sounds like yours is. I wish there were more services like this. No need to get butt-hurt over an opinion on the Internet

 

[TatuICU]

And delay response time even more. Without stating that responding priority one causes more accidents. Please explain your logic on what you've just said.

Im also curious as to what percentage of calls you think benefit from a code 3 response in general

 

[STXmedic]

Im also curious as to what percentage of calls you think benefit from a code 3 response in general

All of them! I mean, you never know! What if the patient who called for a minor laceration has an arterial bleed?! :rofl:

 

[abckidsmom]

Our county is staffed 24/7 with 3 medic units. We need about 5 ambulances to have it fully covered with a cushion.

There are 35 career staff, and over 400 volunteers. The volunteers mark up from 1800-2400, 1900-2300, 2200-2400. Random shifts, during the slow hours, without coordinating the coverage to be spread out.

One agency will mark up 2 units and a medic fly car for 5 hours on friday and saturday nights.

What we think of volunteers is that they do whatever they want, spend whatever money they want to, and benefit the system only marginally. Even though they are free labor, they are a colossal waste of money in our system, with upkeep on 5 buildings, uniforms for hundreds of people, continuing education, radios, boots, incentives....all that for 6 hours here and there of a BLS ambulance that doesn't really want to do calls anyway.

Many of them are extremely competent, many are very friendly, some of them care more about patient care than anything else.

Too many of them are in it for the empire building, the control, and the flashing lights.

 

[Achilles]

You want me to explain the logic behind why its dangerous to have some goober in his personal vehicle putting lights on it and putting th public at risk by disobeying traffic laws? Serious? Well never mind, i guess everyone with a basic license and a Honda accord should light em up and head to that fall call.
Actually around here you have to have at least Fire 1 to get on a department plus 18-24 months of probation before you can respond priority 1.

1-2 calls a day is still a very low call volume and if there are no medics on those units then you have no frame of reference so I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. I'm not sure a basic's scope requires the same amount of experience as higher level's to gain an maintain proficiency. Sound a little defensive. Did someone call you Ricky rescue today?I didn't say they weren't any medics on those rigs, but a majority of our department is specialist and basic, we're LALS. As for me being defensive; no i don't believe I have ever been called "Ricky rescue." Being defensive-honestly, I'm not being defensive, this is a topic that is brought up all the time- 70 percent of firefighters in the United States are volunteers.

..............

 

[jemt]

IMO they are horrible.

Here in NJ its not uncommon to have a volunteer squad go 3rd or 4th page before signing on to respond.

Also in New Jersey alot of ALS units use "fly cars" and there have been times when the ALS unit is on scene with a pt. for 15+ minutes waiting for the local BLS volunteer squad to get a ambulance out to transport.

I also know of instances personally where one EMT in the back and a police officer driving while working a code.

EDIT: I'm awaiting Veneficus post to this thread.

 

[Achilles]

Im also curious as to what percentage of calls you think benefit from a code 3 response in general

I'd have to run numbers to give you an exact percentage or even a close number, I will tell you a majority of our calls are medical as opposed to trauma, on the contrary we still get trauma calls. If the call is not Life threatening we won't run lights and sirens.

 

[DrParasite]

IMO they are horrible.

I could be mistaken, but aren't you a newbie EMT who used to volunteer? If I am wrong, I apologize in advance for my error.

Here in NJ its not uncommon to have a volunteer squad go 3rd or 4th page before signing on to respond.

yeah, and many paid EMS agencies have calls stacked, so the caller might end up waiting 20-40 minutes for an ambulance. Not only that, but a paid agency might only have one ambulance, so any second call is an automatic request for mutual aid, while the volunteer squad can have 3 ambulances, and if the primary crew is on a job, they are paging out for another crew before requesting mutual aid. and if a volunteer squad needs mutual aid it's a sign the volunteers can't do their job, but paid agencies do it all the time. it's a HUGE double standard.

Also in New Jersey alot of ALS units use "fly cars" and there have been times when the ALS unit is on scene with a pt. for 15+ minutes waiting for the local BLS volunteer squad to get a ambulance out to transport.

and there are many many many times when ALS doesn't even respond when requested, or never makes it to the scene, or takes the long route so they get cancelled by the BLS. If ALS doesn't make it to the scene, oh well, BLS can just transport, but if BLS doesn't make it to the scene, well, the volunteer BLS has failed. or when a city like Plainfield has 2 ALS flycars in town, and only one BLS ambulance, so when 2 ALS emergencies occur, guess what happens? It's a double standard.

The truth is that the only difference between a full time paid EMT and a volunteer EMT is experience. a volunteer EMT might work 12 hours a week on an ambulance, while a paid EMT does 36 or 40. I know quite a few volunteer EMTs who could run circles around paid EMTs, and quite a few paid EMTs that I wouldn't let treat my worst enemy. Training is often identical, as both paid and volunteer EMTs take the same exact course.

The other secret is the majority of paid EMTs started our as volunteers. More often than not, they started a volunteers, got a paid job, and decided they were better than volunteers. I know of several EMTs who were volunteers in town, and then were offered paid jobs in the same town, and now they think they are better than the volunteer EMTs. I'm like "weren't you volunteers just 3 months ago???" And that doesn't even account for the paid EMTs who are still volunteers, sometimes even officers in their volunteer agencies.

Many paid EMTs look down on volunteers because "it's the cool thing to do." Everyone else does it, so i'm gonna jump on the bandwagon. They all drink the kool aid, spread the propoganda, and think that all volunteers are idiots, when the truth is many of their own personnel are just as bad. Yes, there are stupid volunteers, but there are some outstanding volunteer EMS professionals, some who run as many calls than their paid counterparts. And that's not even including the twohatters (and we won't even mention those FT paid EMTs who can't stand volunteers EMTs, but are active and proud volunteer firefighters). and then their are the full time paid EMTs who work for transport companies, don't know how to do an assessment, can't backboard someone, but they are paid EMTs, and as such, better than those horrible volunteers.

For full disclosure, I am a career EMS professional assigned to communications in an urban EMS agency, and am not a volunteer. Prior to going into communications I worked on the ambulance for several years. I started out as a volunteer, and I never forgot where I came from. If my local squad wasn't run by a bunch of dinosaurs who think it's the 1970s and there is no reason to act professionals or keep up with modern standards, I would still be with them. and my hometown got 5000 EMS calls a year, which is more than some paid services, which I was a proud member of before I moved out of the area.