Hospital deports illegal immigrant

[subliminal1284]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090723/ap_on_re_us/us_hospital_deportation



Personally Im glad they deported him.

 

[medic417]

But what if they deport someone who is here legally? I mean hospitals screw up and amputate wrong extremities all the time so my question is valid.

 

[VentMedic]

Hospitals, at least in Florida, will not go to that extreme unless asked or under special circumstances. We do treat without regard to status.

For this person, he was well known to their system which means their case managers knew about his legal status. Now the questions about the legal gardian and family members might be a little iffy especially when dealing with an adult. It would also depend on at what level they accessed he mental functioning ability to make he own decisions.

 

[Onceamedic]

The man had the cognitive ability of a fourth grader. How does that constitute informed consent regarding decisions about his care? At the very least, the guardian should have been consulted. It is not the job of hospitals to enforce immigration policy. It is the job of health care providers to make all decisions in the best interest of the patient - not the government, not their own bottom line, but the patient. Holes in the system need to be addressed within the system and NOT at the expense of individual patients.

 

[Meursault]

It is not the job of hospitals to enforce immigration policy.

QFT.

At some point, though, your larger point doesn't hold. Someone is responsible for the interests of the hospital, other patients, and ultimately, society. I like the idea of displacing as much of that responsibility as possible onto healthcare administration; this way, they can actually earn their pay and providers don't have as many conflicts of interest. Still, it's overly simplistic to argue that providers have only a duty to the patient.

 

[Summit]

THIS WAS NOT A DEPORTATION

This was a hospital ordered IFT that happened to be international.

Hospitals do this all the time, transferring patients to county general when they are uninsured. This was simply transferring to country general. Why should that hospital, which had eaten $1.5million, keep eating the bullet?

Guess who pays for that? All the other patients.

 

[Hockey]

Good.

One less illegal that I and everybody else here is paying for

 

[VentMedic]

The man had the cognitive ability of a fourth grader. How does that constitute informed consent regarding decisions about his care? At the very least, the guardian should have been consulted. It is not the job of hospitals to enforce immigration policy. It is the job of health care providers to make all decisions in the best interest of the patient - not the government, not their own bottom line, but the patient. Holes in the system need to be addressed within the system and NOT at the expense of individual patients.

This story has been playing out in the news over the past few years since the patient's life ended as he knew it in 2000 and he was sent to his country in 2004.

Since it has been almost 10 years since his accident I wouldn't doubt his condition is deteriorating. But, that has been almost 6 years in his home country. It took an American nursing home less than a year to almost kill him off with decubitus ulcers. That is a sad statement on our own health care situations. Being this is in Florida, I can only speculate on what the nurse/patient ratio is.

Here's another article with more details.
Stuart hospital's deportation of illegal immigrant sparks legal battle

http://www.miamiherald.com/569/story/1107995.html

Apparently his cousin by marriage was his legal guardian. She had to have been aware of the issues with his placement as he was already placed once in a NH and then returned to the hospital. I would hope the hospital informed her of the difficulty placing him again. Surely there had to have been alternatives discussed which might have included training his family in the U.S. for home care. As his legal guardian she also had some responsibility to stay informed about his care and to also help with finding alternatives. Now if the legal guardian and family only visited for appearance or rarely, there may be other issues involved to which they also failed to assume some responsibilty just like American families are often asked to do. I am also wondering what input his mother in Guatamala had since she is a nurse. She may not have been allowed to come to this country for visits by restrictions from her own country.

This country does provide long term medical to thousands of illegals. However, we are running out of options to warehouse these patients. Thre are long waiting lists and many of these patients take up ICU beds because they are on ventilators. It there is no longer a facility that can care for this patient available the family may have to help with options. The hospital may also have found placement a couple hundred miles away but the family may have refused it. Of course, there would have been a legal battle there also if the hospital got a court order placement.

This family now has strong backing from every human rights group as the legal battles have been going on for over 6 years. This will be messy because we also have one of Obama's campaign promises to stop deportation of illegal Haitains.

 

[VentMedic]

Good.

One less illegal that I and everybody else here is paying for

No, we have been paying for this in some way for over 6 years even without this patient being in this country.

The costs of the courts, attorneys and the hospital being tied up in a legal battle is not cheap. Tax payers are picking up part of the tab.

Whatever decision comes out of this will have opened the door for more lawsuits and limited long term care options. So no, this is not one less illegal but a serious legal mess that deals with human rights.

 

[Shishkabob]

Hopefully the jury has atleast half a brain and rules in favor of the hospital.



Now for the hospital to go after the 'legal guardian' for payment.

 

[Summit]

No, we have been paying for this in some way for over 6 years even without this patient being in this country.

The costs of the courts, attorneys and the hospital being tied up in a legal battle is not cheap. Tax payers are picking up part of the tab.

I'll guarantee you that even if the hospital loses the case, and they probably won't, and if they do, it'll be a slap on the writs, that it will be way cheaper than providing this illegal with a lifetime of longterm care.

 

[VentMedic]

I'll guarantee you that even if the hospital loses the case, and they probably won't, and if they do, it'll be a slap on the writs, that it will be way cheaper than providing this illegal with a lifetime of longterm care.

This is not about slapping somebody on the wrists. If the hospital loses, many hospitals in this country will lose their ability to determine how patients are placed. Think of the lost hospital beds, even in the ICUs, to long term care patients that may have limited options to begin with and now must be at the mercy of someone in a government agency saying when and where that patient can be moved. How many hospitals will be able to stay in business. Heck, in CA, LTC facilites, hospitals and doctors are getting IOUs from Arnie instead of reimbursement for services. That means the employees of these facilities are also getting IOUs from their employers.

This battle didn't start yesterday. Nor did the battle in this country to properly care for all of the aging and disabled patients requiring extended healthcare.

This will also affect taxes in areas with community supported hospital systems. It will affect you insurance rates. It will affect if a member of your family can get a bed in the hospital of their choice or if they must be transferred across town to another hospital. It may affect if your grandmother can get the NH of her choice.

No, there are alot of issues riding each time a case precedient is set or argued.

 

[VentMedic]

Jury Favors Florida Hospital that Deported Immigrant

http://www.emsresponder.com/features/article.jsp?id=10032&siteSection=24

A hospital that sent a seriously brain injured illegal immigrant back to Guatemala - over the objections of his family and legal guardian - did not act unreasonably, a jury found Monday.

Deputy Court Clerk Carol Harper said the unanimous six-member jury found in favor of the hospital and against the guardian of 37-year-old Luis Jimenez, a Mayan Indian from Guatemala.

http://www.emsresponder.com/features/article.jsp?id=10032&siteSection=24

 

[Sasha]

That's good, I'd hate the hospital to pay out money the patient would probably never see, but I wonder if this well effect other hospitals and their treatment of illegal immigrants.

 

[rescue99]

Yep! Allowing civil action is penny foolish in the first place. This man, injured or not, is a resident of another country. He is their's and his family's responsibility.



Now for the hospital to go after the 'legal guardian' for payment.[/QUOTE]

 

[usafmedic45]

THIS WAS NOT A DEPORTATION

This was a hospital ordered IFT that happened to be international.

Amen.

I will volunteer my time to fly (once I have my commercial license in a few months) or staff the plane as a medical provider for any more "international IFTs" they or any other hospital has coming up. We should be transferring them as soon as they are stable enough to survive the transfer and not waiting for them to recover as much as they are going to.

So no, this is not one less illegal but a serious legal mess that deals with human rights.

I agree but at the same time this whole mess reminds me why I hate some lawyers, especially the bleeding heart variety.

Lawyer: "But he's a human being! He has rights!"
Me: "He's also a criminal so....

The illegal belonged one of two places
-Prison

-His home country:

....and the latter is better since it is cheaper for us.

The man had the cognitive ability of a fourth grader.

And your point is?

We have plenty of really stupid but otherwise competent adults out there.

 

[Aidey]

I'm glad they found in favor of the hospital. I look at this the same I would if the patient was a tourist from France (or where ever). Once the patient is stabilized, they should be returned to their country of legal citizenship.