Holy Mother of god... found the perfect jump kit for the whackers
- Thread starter TransportJockey
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EMDispatch
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But that's my problem, he has some intention to use this stuff beyond an apocalypse situation. Even if the intention is on himself...What, a good 50% or so would be unrealistic for self treatment? I also appreciate he has trained himself on some of the equipment, but wasn't the intention for his doctor friends to use the advanced equipment?
The way he talks about it seems to indicate he would use it in the treatment of others outside an apocalyptic scenario, not that he would just randomly do it on the street.
Also while it is possible doctor friends gave him the Rx meds, in his ACLS thread he commented on how he had access to NTG through his friends with cardiac problems...
I understand the intentions and all, but there's something that's just not right.
jjesusfreak01
Forum Deputy Chief
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Ever bought something not because you needed it, but just cause it looked cool and you wanted it? These guys are going all out not because they need or even intend to use these kits, but because they just want to make a perfect complete medical kit. He doesn't just have prescription meds, but a trach kit, suturing kits, an intubation kit....he likely doesn't know how to use any of these and wouldn't be able to if the opportunity presented itself. Now, i'm not saying that he should be able to easily acquire this stuff and i'm not saying it doesn't look a little fishy, just that there are far more ways for anyone to accidentally kill or injure someone than practicing medicine without a license that are infinitely more likely. To put it in perspective, he is much more dangerous driving a car than carrying that medical kit. I've only once come across a person having an acute medical emergency (diabetic seizure), so I would imagine the chance of this whacker ever having a real chance to use his kit is near zero.
truetiger
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Dilaudid, Percoset, Vicodin, Morphine, Phenergan? I'm sure this fine collection would perk the interest of local DEA agents...
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Nope.
My father gave me an older copy of Medicine for Mountaineering a while back. The book discusses obtaining prescription drugs from your physician for "just in case" when you'll be in a remote environment. Pain management and antibiotics are two really clear examples.
If you are clear in your purpose to a physician that you have a good relationship with, they will likely write scripts for whatever you want, so long as you have decent purpose for having them. Same with suture/staple setups.
There are many books out there that deal in the how-to's of backcountry and combat medicine. This guy seems pretty knowledgeable, at least "by the book." Further - he actually cares about his gear. How many medics do you know that don't check their gear... because it "should" be there.
Further - before we disect this person having all this gear and the LEGAL question of his using it - how different is it than an off-duty EMS provider preforming skills beyond those of a layperson with equipment they have in their personal possession. (IV's... Airways, etc).
lightsandsirens5
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JON!!!! Where have you been? (Or have I just not been paying attention?)
truetiger
Forum Asst. Chief
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Well then lets just hope this guy doesn't live in Missouri, because his prescriptions would be invalid. Found this from MO DHSS.
A prescription for a controlled substance is valid only if it is issued for a legitimate medical purpose by a practitioner acting in the usual course of their professional practice.
Three criteria should be met:
1. The patient must desire treatment for a legitimate illness or condition.
2. A practitioner must establish a legitimate need through assessment, utilizing pertinent technical diagnostic modalities.
3. There must be reasonable correlations between the drugs prescribed and the patient's legitimate needs.
I'm not sure if an end of the world dooms day pack is a legitimate medical need.
A prescription for a controlled substance is valid only if it is issued for a legitimate medical purpose by a practitioner acting in the usual course of their professional practice.
Three criteria should be met:
1. The patient must desire treatment for a legitimate illness or condition.
2. A practitioner must establish a legitimate need through assessment, utilizing pertinent technical diagnostic modalities.
3. There must be reasonable correlations between the drugs prescribed and the patient's legitimate needs.
I'm not sure if an end of the world dooms day pack is a legitimate medical need.
brentoli
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I wouldn't make a blanket statement aboud it being invalid. Groups of twelve people make odd decisons, we all know that.
The regulation (I'm assuming that's what it is) doesn't say the need has to be a present or even imminent one. The patient's desire is for treatment of a legitimate condition (pain) that might occur as a result of future, contingent events. Provided the doctor is satisfied, based on his professional knowledge and experience, that the condition might legitimately occur, and that the drugs prescribed would alleviate the condition (infection or pain in an austere medical environment, let's say), I think you could easily make the facts fit the standard.
And that's my take on it in two minutes, without even thinking hard. You could make a counter-argument, of course, and we could go on like that, but there is certainly a colorable argument to be made that a prescription for emergency use in austere conditions is not per se illegal.
Provided the drugs aren't being sold on the black market or used recreationally, I would suggest that the prescriptions are between the person in question and his or her provider. I also think that the DEA would find it merely interesting, unless it's a particularly slow day, or the doctor is writing a lot of scripts for controlled substances to be used PRN at some uncertain future date. That's why the DEA monitors controlled substance transactions, after all.
JJR512
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This was what I initially thought as well.
Then I started thinking a little bit more about the second stipulation. How can a doctor assess a condition that hasn't happened yet? How can there be a "legitimate need" when it's not even certain yet that anything that might result in a need is actually going to happen?
That's just something I think is worth thinking about (and discussing further) as a counterpoint to what you said. I'm not saying I agree or disagree...What Jon said does make some sense, but it might not be applicable, valid, or possible under the law in all states and jurisdictions.