Helmets?

[mycrofft]

I know...

Sumo Suits.

Yeah, that sound of a parietal bone hitting a TMJ is sort of less than comforting.

 

[scottmcleod]

I show up because some make comments without posting anything to back it up.

What type of psych does your teacher teach? Is this at a votech or university? Is your teacher a mental health professional? Psych, like many areas in medicine, has many specialites. Not all "psych" instructors are qualified to practice patient care when it comes to mental illness nor are they experts in all areas.



Yes it is something that may need to be addressed by a qualified professional.

Does he have marital or financial problems? Is he impotent? Is his wife leaving him? Does he have an alcohol and/or drug problem? That is a serious issue when in some CISD sessions others are talking/joking about just having a few beers to cope while someone is struggling to control their addiction and yet want to be "one of the guys". Does he have a true mental disorder that is now just presenting itself? Depression? None of these issues should be handled by someone with just a few hours of training. How willing are some to be truthful to themselves or others that they have other serious problems and this one trauma is just a catalyst for other emotions to arise? How many are willing to openly discuss with their peers that they are having alchohol, sex and money problems that are compounding their ability to deal with the stressors of the job?

It is usually those with the deep seated problems that don't outwardly display serious "psych" issues to the untrained and uneducated eye. Ever wonder why some are so shocked when a co-worker, adult or child they know commits suicide? Most don't know what to look for and a person with serious problems may not be that obvious. We have lost too many in this profession relying on "we take care of our own" and lead them to believe a good "b***S### session with the guys lead by someone who has attended a few hours of training is sufficient. That doesn't just apply to suicide but also to addiction to alcohol and drugs as well as burn out.

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

I agree wholeheartedly.

Scott and vent? Agreeing? WHAT?

Anyways, i was probably semi tired when I read the above!

mycrofft, that's why I was suggessting helmets. I was holding pressure on the carotid and jugular and I was as close to the cabinet as I could get. The impact for me was not as hard as for the medic and student who traveled 4 or 5 times the distance I did. Further I had my ankle dug in right next to the cabinet which is how I twisted myself to let my bulletproof vest take the full brunt of the impact. I thought helmets might help incase I also hit my head, but from the previous posters, some think that halmets can actually be detrimental.

I guess my new question is, in addtional to using those restraints that everyone has mentioned but no one has provided an example of, why would helmets be detrimental?

 

[scottmcleod]

Scott and vent? Agreeing? WHAT?

Anyways, i was probably semi tired when I read the above!

mycrofft, that's why I was suggessting helmets. I was holding pressure on the carotid and jugular and I was as close to the cabinet as I could get. The impact for me was not as hard as for the medic and student who traveled 4 or 5 times the distance I did. Further I had my ankle dug in right next to the cabinet which is how I twisted myself to let my bulletproof vest take the full brunt of the impact. I thought helmets might help incase I also hit my head, but from the previous posters, some think that halmets can actually be detrimental.

I guess my new question is, in addtional to using those restraints that everyone has mentioned but no one has provided an example of, why would helmets be detrimental?

I'm not going to bother getting into the physics of it (again, arguing over the internet is like... ), but there's a reason that racedrivers use the HANS device ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_device )

A helmet adds the equivalent of "unsprung weight" to your body. The back of the ambulance should be better designed to have less protrusions into the path of a possible moving head. Have you seen the videos on youtube? They're scary as hell. ( http://www.youtube.com/user/ParamedicSafety )

... again, I'm not here to argue against anyone else's points, just post things and let people make their own conclusions, so don't bother arguing with me, because I won't argue back.

h34r:

*holding smokebomb, anticipating VentMedic*

 

[VentMedic]

And the helmet turns your body into a great battering ram to use on the others in the patient compartment as you are soaring through the air. It will also do little for the position that your body will land with great force.

 

[scottmcleod]

And the helmet turns your body into a great battering ram to use on the others in the patient compartment as you are soaring through the air. It will also do little for the position that your body will land with great force.

As goes for anything that's unrestrained, as big as your monitor (if not strapped down properly), or as small as your shears if you've put them down somewhere and not back in your holster/pants.

h34r:

*poof*

 

[mycrofft]

OK, no prob. Get the physics straight though.

(I'm smiling here, don't get mad). In real life, a pair of unsecured Tetrasnips isn't going to go zanging across the ambulance interior with nearly enough force to go stick into the wall. Otherwise, there would be a lot of scissor, pen, spring-loaded centerpunch, handheld radio, and other injuries to EMT's every year, including the poor driver (whenever he or she slams on the brakes and all that kipple comes flying in the pass-through!)

Physics-wise, the only occupant of an ambulance eqiuvalent to a race driver (hopefully) is the driver, and she/he is mostly in their dreams.

The answer is to drive more safely, make basic safety design changes in the interiors, drive more safely, and drive more safely.

PS: How about taking lights and sirens off ambulances? Just give them flashing yellow lights like a tow truck, paint them Barney purple, hook up FD-style traffic light control devices, and cameras to provide evidence for stiff punishment of people impeding the operation of the ambulance? No more "Mario Andretti" syndrome, and maybe cut down response times.

 

[VentMedic]

No more "Mario Andretti" syndrome, and maybe cut down response times.

Nice guy and makes great wine.
Infineon Raceway is pretty incredible also. You can learn alot about restraining devices and Mario would be a good source of information. I may have to make a trip just for the purpose of this thread.

Just a tidbit for those in California.

 

[WolfmanHarris]

PS: How about taking lights and sirens off ambulances? Just give them flashing yellow lights like a tow truck, paint them Barney purple, hook up FD-style traffic light control devices, and cameras to provide evidence for stiff punishment of people impeding the operation of the ambulance? No more "Mario Andretti" syndrome, and maybe cut down response times.[/FONT]

I bet no matter how much you could back this up with solid arguments, evidence that L&S doesn't save time and the increased risks you would still find tonnes of people up in arms throwing as many arguments, no matter how contrived, against it. I mean, I agree with you that the necessity of L&S is just not supported beyond public expectation and even I have to fight that irrational twinge about removing them.

With regards to helmets, they are only going to be of use ion conjunction with being properly restrained in order to prevent injuries from head strikes. As we redesign Ambulances to remove things from the head strike zone and make sure that providers can work while belted at all times the necessity of helmets goes down. They're a stop-gap for extremely poor vehicle design.

 

[CAOX3]

Not to be nitpicky, but why are you running l/s for a dead person?

I can see a jackpot in your future.

You will be one who ends up leaving a viable patient in the street.

 

[WolfmanHarris]

I can see a jackpot in your future.

You will be one who ends up leaving a viable patient in the street.

Umm... field pronouncement? ALS almost never transports VSA's in this province and BLS already does TOR for trauma and is trialing medical TOR in some areas (which will likely be expanding).

It's been awhile since I've reviewed the criteria for the medical TOR (since my service isn't in the trial), but I believe it's unwitnessed adult arrest, no shockable rhythm and no ALS available allows the PCP to patch for pronouncement.

Stats do not support the transport of VSA patients.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

I can see a jackpot in your future.

You will be one who ends up leaving a viable patient in the street.

Possibly even this one.

We thought he might not make it with all the blood loss but with some luck they were able to fix his artery and vein and get whole blood in him quickly.

 

[Pudge40]

The service that I run with got a new rig within the last year. They redesigned the rear to provide for safety for the providers during transport. The first way they did this was to remove the bench seat and replace it with two captains chairs. The second way they did this was for the CPR seat they got a 5 point safety harness installed. And yes the captains chairs do fold down to make transport of a second patient possible. Here are pics. I like the new rig because of the fact that you can remain restrained even while providing care.


Captain chairs



CPR seat

 

[Ridryder911]

Nice rig, but here is my point.

Why do manufactures are still determine to place sharp corners with aluminum edges? I don't know how many times myself and partners have gouged and cut ourselves on them. As well, why not recess the buttons, suction containers, oxygen meters? Seriously, they protrude out of the wall awaiting impalement by a passing medic.

Another pet peeve is diamond steel plates. Why? What in the back of the unit has to be armored? Brushed steel... yeah, looks great the first thirty minutes after purchasing, then looks like crap the rest of the units career.

Manufactures refuse to listen to those within the industry. Unfortunate EMS administrators will not take a stand and demand them to be work friendly. We work in them and they should be designed for our working needs to deliver patient care, safety and comfort!

Look at England at their lift on the back of the units. Why is it the U.S. cannot have the same? Look at how many work related injuries would be reduced, needless stretcher incidents would be eliminated.

A part of the industry, that is well controlled and ignores those within it.

R/r 911

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Ever since the first day I was in an ambulance, I hated those edges and corners on the cabinets. Cannot we atleast apd them or something if we refuse to get rid of them?

 

[scottmcleod]

Ever since the first day I was in an ambulance, I hated those edges and corners on the cabinets. Cannot we atleast apd them or something if we refuse to get rid of them?

... or a late night ninja-stealth attack with bubble wrap and duct-tape?

(I'm surprised more corners haven't been covered by the "2-3 inch thick corner bumpers" that that ambulance above even has a few of...)

 

[Pudge40]

I have never been injured by any corners on any ambulance, however I have only been running for about a year and a half.

 

[DV_EMT]

Ok... this was a GREAT THREAD to read. Lots of good discussion and its awesome!

My opinion... helmets are only good for SAR, Medivac, and professionals who are on bikes, atvs, etc...

Wearing it in an ambulance is impractical.... and would look wierd. I say throw the helmet idea out the window and (like someone else stated) invest in a harness (either a 5 point or the jumpseat flight attendant type).

but then again thats just me..... and everyone in nascar

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Ok... this was a GREAT THREAD to read. Lots of good discussion and its awesome!

My opinion... helmets are only good for SAR, Medivac, and professionals who are on bikes, atvs, etc...

Wearing it in an ambulance is impractical.... and would look wierd. I say throw the helmet idea out the window and (like someone else stated) invest in a harness (either a 5 point or the jumpseat flight attendant type).

but then again thats just me..... and everyone in nascar

I agree, much good discussion.

If it doesn't work, that's one thing, but i'd be ok with looking a bit weird if it's going to keep me safer. If it's not and might hurt me, then that's another issue. I assume that you guys have to wear those bright yellow (/safety green) vests on a scene of an MVA? Does it make me look rediculous? Yes, but I'll do it if it keeps me safer (I know i'm about to take some flak for this, so I will state that whether or not it keeps me safer is another discussion!)

 

[DV_EMT]

Our's are baby blue......


But i light up like the fourth of July!!!!