Hatzolah EMS

[SomeGuy9005]

I agree with @DrParasite

I don't work anywhere near NYC or any other city where Hatzolah operates. To me, the whole thing seems a little odd and their promo videos are hilarious, but--from what I understand--they have a good reputation within their community, have prompt response times, and deliver good patient care. Obviously they are filling a perceived need within the community they serve and under NY laws, they're allowed to do what they do. They aren't breaking the rules.

Hatzolah are hardly the only volunteers out there with too many lights on their POVs that drive far too aggressively ...

 

[NysEms2117]

your knowledge and understanding is grossly inaccurate. Hatzolah was formed in Brooklyn NY in the 1960s. http://www.hatzolahems.org/about.html

I am not saying I like them, or agree with what they do, but instead of asking a bunch of random people about an organization you know nothing about, why not pick up the phone and ask some questions yourself? or do some research on the internet, and check out all the different Hatzolah's around the world?

You told me things that i had already stated, i am not sure i could have made that message any more clear that I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON HATZOLAH EMS.
My resource is this: https://www.ted.com/talks/eli_beer_the_fastest_ambulance_a_motorcycle?language=en

Also please pay attention to my full message, "Again this is my UN-OFFICAL knowledge of Hatzolah ems." that was also a part of my message. I always have some kind of disclaimer at anything i post, because there is very little i can claim to be an expert on, especially in EMS(nothing i know is something everybody on this site does not know.)

Now my very basic legal training this message which is a direct quote from ted.com "With an average response time of 3 minutes, last year, they treated 207,000 people in Israel. And the idea is going global." now, to me that means it started in Israel.

Edit: I have no reason to become an expert on this topic either, due to the fact hatzolah is not in my area.

 

[DrParasite]

You told me things that i had already stated, i am not sure i could have made that message any more clear that I AM NOT AN EXPERT ON HATZOLAH EMS.
My resource is this: https://www.ted.com/talks/eli_beer_the_fastest_ambulance_a_motorcycle?language=en

Also please pay attention to my full message, "Again this is my UN-OFFICAL knowledge of Hatzolah ems." that was also a part of my message. I always have some kind of disclaimer at anything i post, because there is very little i can claim to be an expert on, especially in EMS(nothing i know is something everybody on this site does not know.)

Now my very basic legal training this message which is a direct quote from ted.com "With an average response time of 3 minutes, last year, they treated 207,000 people in Israel. And the idea is going global." now, to me that means it started in Israel.

Edit: I have no reason to become an expert on this topic either, due to the fact hatzolah is not in my area.

I am not an expert, but I will educate you on two things: 1) Hatzolah EMS was started in Brooklyn in the 1960s. Their website is https://hatzalah.org/, and their Wikipedia page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatzalah.

2) Hatzalah United WAS started in Israel..... in 2006. Hatzalah United's Website is https://israelrescue.org/, which is the organization referenced in the TED talk. If you want to read their wikipedia page, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Hatzalah

While I can appreciate you stating you are not an expert, you are confusing two completely separate organizations that are located in different countries. And don't get pissed at me because you were talking about the wrong organization.

BTW, there is no Hatzolah in my area either, but I do know how to research stuff, and remember, Google is your friend

 

[NysEms2117]

I am not an expert, but I will educate you on two things: 1) Hatzolah EMS was started in Brooklyn in the 1960s. Their website is https://hatzalah.org/, and their Wikipedia page is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hatzalah.

2) Hatzalah United WAS started in Israel..... in 2006. Hatzalah United's Website is https://israelrescue.org/, which is the organization referenced in the TED talk. If you want to read their wikipedia page, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Hatzalah

While I can appreciate you stating you are not an expert, you are confusing two completely separate organizations that are located in different countries. And don't get pissed at me because you were talking about the wrong organization.

BTW, there is no Hatzolah in my area either, but I do know how to research stuff, and remember, Google is your friend

Was not getting pissed just stating my point, and for any future endeavors i may have on emtlife. Thank you for the info though

 

[Tigger]

I just like pointing that out. I hate paying for 911/PD/FD services via taxes and getting a bill in the mail when I use it too. Almost seems like double billing.

It is exactly that. But shhhh. Don't let them hear you lol.

I'm just saying, free is good, but not always the best. In the example of the video, I see a lot of problems with what is happening; reckless disregard, disorganized response, too many people, etc.

Because tax revenue always covers operating expenses...

It would appear these organizations are exceptionally well funded outside the provided service, which is fine. If people want to pay for "improved" EMS by all means. It would just be nice if they played by the rules set up for EMS, which include not driving like fools.

 

[NPO]

So 7 people responding to a call in 7 cars all with medical equipment is too many people but 5 people responding in a truck with 500 gallons of water is not?

Yes.

Because it's unstructured.
Yes, they MIGHT have medical equipment, but they're probably all EMTs at best. Yeah, they may have paramedics or doctors, but I doubt any in that video were either. I'm also curious if the paramedics and doctors have standing orders. I'd imagine they do.

Now, if these were 7 paramesics with 7 full sets of ALS equipment, I'd have much less against this. But at the bls level, one MAYBE two responders is plenty.

 

[dutemplar]

H EMS had at least two fully licensed ALS units in Baltimore MD that primarily responded to their own community by private call. Ran into them fairly frequently at Sinai before I made the hop across the pond.

..same type MIEMSS license sticker as my truck had. You state and mileage may vary.

 

[EpiEMS]

Yes.

Because it's unstructured.
Yes, they MIGHT have medical equipment, but they're probably all EMTs at best. Yeah, they may have paramedics or doctors, but I doubt any in that video were either. I'm also curious if the paramedics and doctors have standing orders. I'd imagine they do.

Now, if these were 7 paramesics with 7 full sets of ALS equipment, I'd have much less against this. But at the bls level, one MAYBE two responders is plenty.

I'm with you that it's somewhat unstructured. However, if push comes to shove and it's a code or major trauma, a couple extra trained pairs of hands don't hurt at all. (More than 3 medics is detrimental anyway)

 

[Alan L Serve]

I've seen then around and never had a bad interaction. I view them just like any volunteer EMS department. Heck, the volunteer fire dept I worked for in the early 2000s had a similar model.

 

[looker]

I agree with @DrParasite

I don't work anywhere near NYC or any other city where Hatzolah operates. To me, the whole thing seems a little odd and their promo videos are hilarious, but--from what I understand--they have a good reputation within their community, have prompt response times, and deliver good patient care. Obviously they are filling a perceived need within the community they serve and under NY laws, they're allowed to do what they do. They aren't breaking the rules.

Hatzolah are hardly the only volunteers out there with too many lights on their POVs that drive far too aggressively ...

They stopped running their ambulance in la in 2011 after la county required everyone to apply for County license . Being they respond going code 3 without approval, they are violating county rules. It seems unlikely that county will grand them the license but time will tell

 

[Voly EMS]

Yes.

Because it's unstructured.
Yes, they MIGHT have medical equipment, but they're probably all EMTs at best. Yeah, they may have paramedics or doctors, but I doubt any in that video were either. I'm also curious if the paramedics and doctors have standing orders. I'd imagine they do.

Now, if these were 7 paramesics with 7 full sets of ALS equipment, I'd have much less against this. But at the bls level, one MAYBE two responders is plenty.

I looked into that specific emergency and I discovered that sure enough there were paramedics in 2 of those vehicles and one of the vehicles even had someone with a new Lucas 2 device which performs high quality compressions on patient in Cardiac arrest.

 

[redundantbassist]

I looked into that specific emergency and I discovered that sure enough there were paramedics in 2 of those vehicles and one of the vehicles even had someone with a new Lucas 2 device which performs high quality compressions on patient in Cardiac arrest.

Source?

 

[Bullets]

Yes.

Because it's unstructured.
Yes, they MIGHT have medical equipment, but they're probably all EMTs at best. Yeah, they may have paramedics or doctors, but I doubt any in that video were either. I'm also curious if the paramedics and doctors have standing orders. I'd imagine they do.

Now, if these were 7 paramedics with 7 full sets of ALS equipment, I'd have much less against this. But at the bls level, one MAYBE two responders is plenty.

But its not unstructured.

While we look at them as POVs because a minivan doesnt fit your personal image of an emergency response vehicle, to run lights and sirens they have been licensed by NY state as an emergency vehicle and must have specific equipment in them. When a call is dispatched by hatzolah central units nearby respond in their POVs and the ambulance responds from their post. Many are EMTs, some are paramedics. With the nature of traffic in NYC it is usually faster to have people in fly cars then rely on just the ambulance

 

[EpiEMS]

But its not unstructured.

While we look at them as POVs because a minivan doesnt fit your personal image of an emergency response vehicle, to run lights and sirens they have been licensed by NY state as an emergency vehicle and must have specific equipment in them. When a call is dispatched by hatzolah central units nearby respond in their POVs and the ambulance responds from their post. Many are EMTs, some are paramedics. With the nature of traffic in NYC it is usually faster to have people in fly cars then rely on just the ambulance

This, x1000.

Traffic in the City is bad enough with a POV. Now try weaving through traffic in an ambulance...
If a BLS response can be hastened, that can be beneficial for critical calls, or (in an optimal system), you can downgrade the ambulance...(doubt Hatzolah does that for FDNY and the voluntaries, though)

 

[B2chn]

Source?

I'm very familiar with Hatzolah operations. For a code or ped struck, typically they will send 2 BLS and 2 ALS direct to scene, 1 BLS to p/u a bus and for a confirmed arrest additional BLS to p/u a Lucas (budget constraints, so there's only 1-2 per neighborhood)

 

[B2chn]

I'm with you that it's somewhat unstructured. However, if push comes to shove and it's a code or major trauma, a couple extra trained pairs of hands don't hurt at all. (More than 3 medics is detrimental anyway)

Very rare they will have more than 3 medics on a call. Also remember, hasidic guys in NY aren't really known for their physical strength. So they require more hands sometimes for carry up/down/out..

 

[B2chn]

Because tax revenue always covers operating expenses...

It would appear these organizations are exceptionally well funded outside the provided service, which is fine. If people want to pay for "improved" EMS by all means. It would just be nice if they played by the rules set up for EMS, which include not driving like fools.

Actually they have a very low rate of member involved collision. FDNY has nothing on them

 

[EpiEMS]

I'm very familiar with Hatzolah operations. For a code or ped struck, typically they will send 2 BLS and 2 ALS direct to scene, 1 BLS to p/u a bus and for a confirmed arrest additional BLS to p/u a Lucas (budget constraints, so there's only 1-2 per neighborhood)

That seems fairly reasonable...but why wouldn't FDNY or a voluntary be responding for a code or pedestrian struck? Seems like at least one of those also requires PD -- will Hatzolah call PD?

Very rare they will have more than 3 medics on a call. Also remember, hasidic guys in NY aren't really known for their physical strength. So they require more hands sometimes for carry up/down/out..

Gotcha, thanks!

Actually they have a very low rate of member involved collision. FDNY has nothing on them

Based on how immaculate the Hatzolah rigs are in Manhattan, and how beaten up the FDNY vehicles look, this sounds about right, anecdotally. That being said, the voluntary hospital units typically fall somewhere in between.

 

[B2chn]

That seems fairly reasonable...but why wouldn't FDNY or a voluntary be responding for a code or pedestrian struck? Seems like at least one of those also requires PD -- will Hatzolah call PD?

Here's how Hatzolah differs from other volunteer in the city. They don't receive jobs from 911 at all, totally independent. If they get a phone call, they'll respond. Also, they don't work with "on shift" volunteer, it's everyone on call at all times. If a call comes in and your in the neighborhood, head over. Therefore, when they get a call for a ped struck, they just respond. If additional is needed (as in FDNY for extrication, or PD for scene safety or when a crime was committed) the unit on scene will request it.
The dispatcher will sometimes advise a caller to call 911 as well, if he believes that he won't get a unit to be in scene quicker than the system. Hope that explains it

 

[B2chn]

Based on how immaculate the Hatzolah rigs are in Manhattan, and how beaten up the FDNY vehicles look, this sounds about right, anecdotally. That being said, the voluntary hospital units typically fall somewhere in between.

As crazy as it might seem, Hatzolah is considered a prestigious organization to volunteer for. And they won't accept members until they do a thorough character investigation (remember, this is a community that more or less everyone knows everything about everyone). So they have a division of "service members" that take care of the buses, and in return get the status of being a member.