For real military medics etc.: LOAC, Geneva Conventions, and you.

[spisco85]

Women are not allowed in jobs that are expressly ground combat orientated. Infantry, tanks, cavalry, artillery, combat engineers, special forces, rangers, etc, etc.

 

[firecoins]

If you can agree to rules of war, you can probably agree to not have a war.

 

[mycrofft]

Firecoins, spoken like a true warrior/diplomat.

NH, this lady went to Desert Shield, returned to CONUS, and volunteered to return and was "wheels wet" (over Atlantic) enroute KKMC when Desert Storm kicked off. This made her the first maxillofacial surgeon in-theater (you might be able to identify her from that); she wasn't listening to bullets zip by, but she spent some time waiting for SCUDS to drop. Darn fine doc, cohort, and lady.

 

[HNcorpsman]

oooo, she was a docTOR!!! ok... i thought she was their medic/corpsman

 

[mycrofft]

Neg, real live MD from Stanford Medical Center

Carried a pager to go on rescue hops with my Guard unit, over water or not. I don't THINK she was jump-qualified but I wold not bet against it.

 

[Afflixion]

Ah, mycroft airborne is fun and all but we all know the real fun is in air assault! As to the rest of you guys who go around carrying M249's and such why? You don't have enough weight on you with your aidbag, (hopefully) more than full combat load, water, etc. ? Your no good to your unit dead which is what a 249 gunner would be if the perverbial poo hit the fan. I'm all for pulling your weight but don't make yourself in to an unessecary target.

P.S. It's spelled HMMWV as in High Mobility Military Wheeled Vehicle

 

[mycrofft]

Gotcha.

The Guard unit we served was the 129th Rescue, PJ's (parachute jumpers), actually trained and really qualified for HALO insertions, water rescue at sea (the unit also had Herc with aerial refuel capacity to the choppers), rescue under fire, jungle penetrator winch ops, you name it. Sister org to the one seen on "Perfect Storm". The good doc would show for rescue ops when paged.

(We used to have these PJ's do a pulmo peak flow for their physical, and they got off by overpowering and breaking the meters. I've seen 'em break open lightsticks, pour the dye into their mouths, then crack the glass and activate the stuff in their mouths, at night).

 

[HNcorpsman]

PJs are my hero

 

[apagea99]

I'm not even MOSQ'd yet, so I've no combat medic experience yet.

On the other hand, I have a cousin who is a former Special Forces medic and he sent me this advice this morning:

"Just remember the most effective way to save your comrades lives is to win the battle first, eliminate the threat then treat the wounded."

I like the sound of that.

 

[mycrofft]

Ap. I hear ya.

You know, even while we were learning LOAC and Geneva Convention we were practicing not wearing or exhibiting the GenCon red on white emblem, only wore our arm brassards inside tents, didn't salute, no metal officers' insignia, the usual things lightheartedly hoped to help snipers have a hard time shopping for targets.
Considering how good the Bosnian snipers allegedly were/are, they would probably have been reading our underwear tags.

 

[medicp94dao]

Most of my time prior to 9/11 was spent training.... ie, RANGERS, Airborne, 91B etc... after i was done training, i beacame an Instructor doing TDY traveling around and teaching others to teach. I will say if it came to my life or that of one of my brothers against taking the life of someone else..... I will take the others out before they even get a chance to raise their weapon...


RANGERS Lead The Way!!!!!!!

 

[arsenicbassist]

ATPs and TCCC

Most of the guys we're talking about, 18D's, PJ's, etc. are classified as ATP's (Advanced Tactical Practicioners). They technically do not fall under protection of the Geneva Conventions. As medics, your job first and foremost should always be to SAVE. As soldiers, your job first and foremost should always be to WIN. Check out TCCC(tactical combat casualty care) and it will give you a much better understanding on it. It was developed by the USN and is still one of the simplest concepts....most preventable casualties result from extremity hemorrhage, then tension pneumothorax, then airway. Supress the enemy...then treat those who couldn't treat themselves. Noone is going to live any more just because you dropped your rifle to help them...the best medicine on the battlefield is fire supremacy!

Cheers

 

[HNcorpsman]

exactly... when i went to OEMS i had the privilege to meet one of the founders of TCCC DR. Hagmann. one of the brightest DR i have ever met in my entire life... Geneva conventions eh? Im a marine until someone gets hurt, then i am a marine with some medical skills. superior medicine is more rounds down range.

 

[arsenicbassist]

fire supremacy

Like I said....fire supremacy is the best medicine. One of our IDMT's was attached to some Marines a few years back...don't know who, but he had some great stories to tell.

 

[HNcorpsman]

I love being with the Marine Corps... KILL!!

 

[hjp31bravoMP]

I'm not a medic, but I work EMS back home. Right now I'm stationed somewhere in Afghanistan as an MP and work closely with the medics here. One is my closest friend.

Our base commander actually has a brain and requires our medics to have MP escorts on all missions outside the wire. The lead medic (see above) refers to me as his "IBA." (Individual Ballistic Armor) I feel for him, knowing that having been a Marine Corps Scout Sniper previously, it's a kick in the nuts to be armed and not be able to use it.

Granted, he does eventually have to drop and/or hand off his M16 to tend to his patients. That's where I step in and pull security. We feel that it's a good SOP because I'd rather take a bullet and have the medic patch me up, then let the medic take the bullet and try to patch him up.

 

[mycrofft]

hjp, how about neither of you take the bullet?

Hang tough, and tell us how in the world you guys and women every get used to wearing all that gear in the heat!!?? Not to mention working in it.

 

[mycrofft]

OK, let me introduce a benchmark here.

Let us agree then that it is immoral and unrealistic for medical personnel to be sent into hot zones unarmed and without ROE to fight.
Can we also agree that a medic-level talent as part of the fighting team, even if she/he is NOT officially a medic (and hence not Geneva-covered) is a good thing?

 

[hjp31bravoMP]

Hang tough, and tell us how in the world you guys and women every get used to wearing all that gear in the heat!!?? Not to mention working in it.

Well, we're in Afghanistan, so the heat isn't nearly as bad as Iraq, but its warm none-the-less. The gear is a different matter entirely! The Military Police and Medics are what you call "FOBBITS" meaning we don't normally go outside the FOB (Forward Operating Base or "post"). We don't normally wear all of our gear and as MPs, we only carry 1 of our 2 weapons (M4/M16 and a 9mm pistol--we just carry the 9mm inside the FOB ).

In the case of the medics, they don't wear their gear inside the FOB either, though they DO carry their weapon (9mm for some, M4/M16 for others).

When a call comes in that we need to escort the medics, we (and they) don our "battle rattle" which consists of a 50lb IBA (Individual Ballistic Armor) and a ACH (Army Combat Helmet) and grab our rifles (M4/M16). Usually, there is so much adrenaline coursing through your veins, that the added weight and bulk is hardly noticable. (unless you're trying to get in the vehicle lol)

Hope that answers your questions! If not, feel free to ask more. I have a big head and LOVE to talk about myself! lol

 

[mycrofft]

I remember wearing 70 lbs of firefighting stuff

but nobody shooting.