For EMS managers.

NomadicMedic

NomadicMedic

I know a guy who knows a guy.
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For managers or supes.

How do you deal with insubordination?

Asking for a friend .
 
Progressive discipline:
Verbal, Written, suspension, termination. depending on what the circumstances are i can escalate directly to written or suspension.
 
Sometimes I'd switch seats with the other person, so he/she would be sitting in my chair and I'd be on the other side of the desk. Then I'd say something like, "Ok, now you're in my seat. Suppose somebody (did whatever that person had done). What would you do about that?" It definitely threw them off guard and increased the chances of a teachable moment. When used, this would be the first step -- i.e., before documented discipline.
 
I am not a fan of progressive discipline. It is a dated and worthless approach to managing adults, especially in a professional career field. Everyone wants to be treated with dignity and respect, so in order to manage those who are insubordinate, you first have to ask are you yourself or your supervisors educated and trained in managing people? Seems obvious enough, however in many organizations the supervisors are promoted without the company giving them the education or knowledge required to do what they are being asked to do. This in turn trickles down to the staff who realize the supervisors or higher are weak, and then they will push the buttons for a myriad of reasons.

Which brings us to...for what reason are they (the employee) pushing the insubordination button. Managing is hard, it takes time and effort to be an active listener, an effective communicator and to not display frustration or anger to an employee who knows better, is being a fool, and insubordinate.

What is the context of their insubordination? Are they refusing to do something because they feel it is beneath them? Are they refusing to do something cause maybe they have not been trained and are too ashamed to admit it? I can go on but would appreciate more info for a better response.

I ran my company as a Non-Punitive business. Sure, people were written up and or terminated over time, however it was never this progressive step plan as that unto itself sets the wrong tone. I currently have a supervisor whose first reaction to everything is "write them up!" I mean seriously...do you even know or care to know why whatever transpired the way it did? Most often, if you conduct root cause analysis, you will see the miscommunication goes right up the chain. As a leader you have to be humble enough to own your own contributions to the employee's issue if it exists. I had staff screw up and I found out the screw up was due to a supervisor either not giving enough information or misinterpreting the information. Which means the Manager did the same to the supervisor...which means I did the same to the Manager.

It IS a process, however if you commit the time and effort, you may find your staff being more receptive to self reporting mistakes, not being insubordinate as their role or duties are clarified, and in general a more happier high morale staff who will self patrol their counterparts as to not disrupt the good ship they are on.
 
Best answer so far. I don't really feel comfortable sharing the details here. But in a nutshell, we said we needed the EMTs to take responsibility for a specific item in charting and one EMT sent a scathing reply all email to the entire company stating that he was no longer going to do what we asked and how dare we make it HIS responsibility. And on and on.

To me, that's a terminal offense.

I have no problem talking to anyone about anything, and would have been happy to discuss this issue face to face, but the #$%& YOU email to the whole company really crossed the line .
 
Yeah, that's a pretty public demonstration, and it likely speaks to a deeper sense of frustration than a simple charting issue. I'd pull him into the office and have a discussion about it, and politely terminate employment.
 
NomadicMedic said:
Best answer so far. I don't really feel comfortable sharing the details here. But in a nutshell, we said we needed the EMTs to take responsibility for a specific item in charting and one EMT sent a scathing reply all email to the entire company stating that he was no longer going to do what we asked and how dare we make it HIS responsibility. And on and on.

To me, that's a terminal offense.

I have no problem talking to anyone about anything, and would have been happy to discuss this issue face to face, but the #$%& YOU email to the whole company really crossed the line .
Click to expand...

No criticism, just a comment: That EMT who sent the scathing email to everyone did what lots of people do on social media all the time -- i.e., address grievances to a group, rather than to the people who would be best positioned to at least consider change. I used to let my people know they could say pretty much anything to me privately. Public displays of hostility, on the other hand, would be negatively reinforced in the strongest ways allowed by corporate policy.
 
To play Devil's Advocate, is it clear that the intended audience was the entire company and not an inadvertent "Reply All"?
 
So here is my observation about "supervision" or "management" in any medical milieu as opposed to business, where management and supervision means something. ****Warning...thread de-rail to follow...***

In our setting, more often then not (I'll gladly entertain contrary experience/opinions) the pool of eligible "managers" come from excellent practitioners having little to no business training or experience. That isn't to say that expertise in the field of management isn't a requirement, but the notion that because someone is a standout intellectually and clinically does not logically follow the notion that that some how crosses over to business management skills, which include recognition of shortcomings in those managed and how to deal with that.

Seen it played out too many times to count. One of the best OR managers I knew came from a psych nurse backround with some incidental business management training. She was an OR nurse for maybe a year and just wanted to manage people. Very average nurse. Very effective manager.

How do folk's services pick managers and how are they trained to manage? Curious...
 
In most cases EMS managers have no experience, other than being there a while.

For me, I have a couple of decades of management experience, an “almost” BS in EMS administration (2 more classes, thank the lord) several college level management workshops, a 2 week intensive “management of EMS” course at National Fire Academy.

And that’s not nearly enough.

The National Fire Academy programs are a huge help and I plan on applying to the EFO program next year. That’ll probably get me to where I need to be.
 
VFlutter said:
To play Devil's Advocate, is it clear that the intended audience was the entire company and not an inadvertent "Reply All"?
Click to expand...

Very clearly a reply all. This guy lobbed a grenade and knee exactly what he was doing.
 
Yeah, in that case, I'd terminate employment.
1. He's clearly staked out the ground for the duel, and if Manager doesn't respond with equal and appropriate force, he will find his authority undermined.
2. He's angry and he's probably being egged on by a few peers. Making an example of him will demonstrate what happens to those who throw grenades.
3. If he's making such a ruckus over something so minor, what about something that actually matters?
 
Sounds like "failure to perform the essential duties of the job description."
 
Get your story out first.

I would have already done a company wide email on the heels of his "reply all" and used it as a teaching moment of what not to do and the expectation for email communications.

Example: Hey everyone, recently a mass email went out to the company describing a serious problem with a new policy. While that matter is being addressed through more proper channels, I want to take this real time situation to remind or teach each of you several things regarding corporate policy and email use. First, let's talk email. Great rules of advice are "never email angry" or reply quickly. Write the email and save it as a draft. Let it sit for a few hours or overnight. Sleep on it. Then read it again, read it out loud. If you still feel the same then it is time to send. However, as a courtesy you should also schedule a face to face with your immediate supervisor or higher if the situation warrants.

This brings us to a second reminder, chain of command. The entire staff is never your chain of command. You have supervisors, managers, and so on. It is entirely acceptable and welcome to air challenges with the appropriate levels above your pay grade. Report issues or problems within the proper chain of command, wait an appropriate amount of time for action or resolution and then follow up. Document your follow up visits in an email, I have zero issue with that. We here manage both up and down, that means you the staff have just as much right to hold management accountable as they do of you. Does anyone not fully understand the chain of command? I will be happy to schedule face time to review if needed. Additionally, I have attached contact info of all the supervisors, managers, etc and this info can also be found in your XXXX.

Just to recap, you should never abuse the "reply all" function to air issues. You should be comfortable approaching and or emailing your supervisors to address issues. We absolutely will listen and reply or act if needed. More importantly, we will close the communication loop with you so you are aware of whether the issue was handled or not (respecting privacy if situation demands).

If anyone has any further questions or concerns, please see me or call me....XXXXXXX



***I have been there done that. The reason I suggest the above is you are ahead of the issue and not hiding it. Sweeping under the rug days are long gone. I strongly recommend this action because believe it or not, you will have staff supporting YOUR decision when you terminate said employee. While some may laugh at the audaciousness of said employee, I guarantee many of the staff are aghast.

So you professionally address it now before taking any actions. You recommunicate what is acceptable. You reach out to all staff. Then when actions take place, YOUR version is already out and no matter what he says afterwards (in case you keep him on board) his comments become irrelevant and his peers dismiss his words since they now know what happened straight from mgmt.

I assure you, it is tough changing corporate culture to this type of mindset as it has not been a common practice. Once it is implemented though, the rewards are endless. I had the luxury of founding my company on a mindset like this so the staff never knew any different. However, I am now neck deep in a **it show that relied heavily on reactive and punitive practices.
 
I agree with all of what @akflightmedic has said. I manage well over 200 people(not in EMS), but you have to directly address it, and not try to hide it(don’t give info away). But say something like: yes this happened, if you want to know why or are concerned with the route we are going feel free to contact me, or your immediate supervisor.
+10 points to akflight :)
 
Progressive discipline is usually the way to go... however there are situations where you have a 1 strike and you're out... I feel like this is one of those cases.

While I typically will side with the employee, especially when management gives more responsibilities without added compensation (it's the union guy inside me), in this case, failure to take appropriate disciplinary action against this employee is a management failure.

I do think @akflightmedic is correct, and a company wide email needs to be sent out reinforcing chain of command and how not to use reply all.

In this particular case, management has decreed something, and this EMT has made it clear that he is refusing to do that portion of his job. You aren't being punitive, however there are consequences to telling management that you have no intention of doing what they say, especially in public and in front of everyone else. His opinion has been noted, his termination date is effective today, make sure he turns in his badge on his way out the door.
 
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