Flutter Valves

[fast65]

It's long... 3.5", I believe. It worked like a champ in the last guy I popped.

That's what we use as well...I can't remember the exact length, but I believe our 10 ga angiocaths in the decompression kit are 3.5". I checked last week after I read a study on needle decompression on RESUSME, but I've already forgotten.

That being said, my friend did bring up the flutter valve issue to our MD the other day, and he still wants us to use them. I can't really speak to the efficacy of them, since I've only decompressed one chest, and it was on an intubated patient where I used a 3 way stopcock.

 

[mikie]

Lots of evidence that a 14g will not even reach the pleural cavity in at least a third of patients.

Here's some of that evidence:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22987168

 

[NomadicMedic]

Sorry I don't know the exact size off hand, but I'll pull the chest decompression kit tonight and take a look. . I know it's a 14 and at least a 3.25, and we're only allowed to use the midaxillary line.

 

[Luno]

@Rocket

Arguing tourniquets with a 68W is like arguing ballistics with a sniper.

I think I've found my new e-mail quote...

 

[fast65]

Sorry I don't know the exact size off hand, but I'll pull the chest decompression kit tonight and take a look. . I know it's a 14 and at least a 3.25, and we're only allowed to use the midaxillary line.

I just checked our kit, and the 10ga angiocath is 3" long.

 

[NYMedic828]

I just checked our kit, and the 10ga angiocath is 3" long.

Ouch that's a big boy needle.


We use 14g for adults here. No fancy premade kit either. We just take out a 14g angiocath and remove the flash cap. (We don't carry the auto retracting IV needles)

 

[usalsfyre]

Ouch that's a big boy needle.


We use 14g for adults here. No fancy premade kit either. We just take out a 14g angiocath and remove the flash cap. (We don't carry the auto retracting IV needles)

Still infinitely smaller than a 36fr chest tube.

 

[TransportJockey]

That's pretty disappointing if I can learn something new while instructing I welcome it. An attitude like that stifles good medicine.

Since when is the status-quo EMS about medicine?

And I haven't made a flutter valve w/ the two I've done in the field. We don't carry extension tubing(ugh!) or stopcocks either.

 

[RocketMedic]

Per our OMD Education /Tac-Med guy, "we haven't used those in ten years because they're worthless."

Nothing like multiple standards to make life confusing.

 

[Handsome Robb]

I just checked our kit, and the 10ga angiocath is 3" long.

3.25" 14g here. All packaged up with a commercial valve and betadine swabs.

 

[fast65]

3.25" 14g here. All packaged up with a commercial valve and betadine swabs.

You always have to one up me Rob!

 

[lightsandsirens5]

You always have to one up me Rob!

Length wise.....but sure not width wise. 10 ga is huge compared to 14.


Wow, that sounds weird.

 

[usalsfyre]

Length wise.....but sure not width wise. 10 ga is huge compared to 14.


Wow, that sounds weird.

It's not the...never mind......

 

[Akulahawk]

Way back when, Sac City FD ambulances carried 3.5 - 4.0 inch 12 ga angiocaths specifically for this purpose. I do not know if they have them any longer. Most of the private companies I have worked for used the longest 14ga angios they could find, if we didn't have them on the truck, we could simply use one of our regular 14ga angiocaths, but with the understanding that they might be a bit short on some patients... I've yet to do a needle decompression.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Just looked... Ours are 3.5".

 

[Handsome Robb]

It's not the...never mind......

Dammit you beat me to it!