Firefighters and paramedic have religious right to keep beards

[VentMedic]

While not a port of entry, I remember how it was discussed that MD's ties and labcoats being really... dirty with microbes and the like. Would someone's beard, if long enough, be similar?

Yes if the person is touching their beard while touching patients. The same with people who mess with they hair while in the clinical setting.

 

[Sasha]

The same with people who mess with they hair while in the clinical setting.

Yuck.

10chars

 

[EMTCop86]

Or SARS, or Bacterial Meningitis, or any other of a number of nasty airbourne viruses. The whole point is that the religious observation shouldn't be allowed to interfere with the job. If a patient has to wait 20 minutes for a crew because the only crew available can't wear the proper PPE, it's interfearing.

I disagree.

firecoins what exactly do you disagree with, the fact that religion should not interfere with your job of saving lives or that a patient might have to wait 20 minutes because the initial crew can't wear proper PPEs?

Aidey I completely agree with you. I understand the whole religious thing and I respect it, however, if your religion prevents you from doing your job properly, effectively, and safely then you need to find another job, especially when your jobs involves matters of life and death.

 

[Sasha]

firecoins what exactly do you disagree with

I think he's just disagreeing to be disagreeable.

 

[Vonny]

While not a port of entry, I remember how it was discussed that MD's ties and labcoats being really... dirty with microbes and the like. Would someone's beard, if long enough, be similar?

Here is a study that was done on this very subject

"An investigation was conducted to evaluate the hypothesis that a bearded man subjects his family and friends to risk of infection if his beard is contaminated by infectious microorganisms while he is working in a microbiological laboratory. Bearded and unbearded men were tested with Serratia marcescens and Bacillus subtilis var. niger. Contact aerosol transmission from a contaminated beard on a mannequin to a suitable host was evaluated with both Newcastle disease virus and Clostridium botulinum toxin, type A. The experiments showed that beards retained microorganisms and toxin despite washing with soap and water. Although washing reduced the amount of virus or toxin, a sufficient amount remained to produce disease upon contact with a suitable host."

The whole study can be read here

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=547091&blobtype=pdf

 

[Aidey]

In short, ewwwww.

 

[EMTCop86]

Here is a study that was done on this very subject

"An investigation was conducted to evaluate the hypothesis that a bearded man subjects his family and friends to risk of infection if his beard is contaminated by infectious microorganisms while he is working in a microbiological laboratory. Bearded and unbearded men were tested with Serratia marcescens and Bacillus subtilis var. niger. Contact aerosol transmission from a contaminated beard on a mannequin to a suitable host was evaluated with both Newcastle disease virus and Clostridium botulinum toxin, type A. The experiments showed that beards retained microorganisms and toxin despite washing with soap and water. Although washing reduced the amount of virus or toxin, a sufficient amount remained to produce disease upon contact with a suitable host."

The whole study can be read here

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=547091&blobtype=pdf

Have they done any studies on hair from your head?

 

[reaper]

We should all wear a full bio suite and be decontaminated after each shift!!!

Some things are taken a little over board. Should we rip out all our finger nails? Come on now, they can contain viruses under them.

We can never make the world totally clean. We can do our best to minimize after affect. Proper BSI and washing is what we need to focus on.

Do I think that long beards should be aloud in EMS? NO. A short well trimmed beard is not a problem.

 

[firecoins]

We should all wear a full bio suite and be decontaminated after each shift!!!

Some things are taken a little over board. Should we rip out all our finger nails? Come on now, they can contain viruses under them.

We can never make the world totally clean. We can do our best to minimize after affect. Proper BSI and washing is what we need to focus on.

Do I think that long beards should be aloud in EMS? NO. A short well trimmed beard is not a problem.

good post.

 

[BossyCow]

We all make choices. This same topic was discussed under the tattoo thread. If my religion dictates that I must subscribe to certain restrictions, my moral obligation is to find a method of earning a living that fits with my moral code. To attempt to change a workplace in order to fit my religious preferences is going about it backwards.

There will be opportunities missed, limitations imposed, but hey.. life is messy. I don't think any religion states that the world must adjust to make your religious practice less of a pain. While reasonable accomodations are the hallmark of a decent employer, realistic expectations is also the hallmark of a mature adult.

 

[Aidey]

Some things are taken a little over board. Should we rip out all our finger nails? Come on now, they can contain viruses under them.

Medicare actually has regulations stating how long an employees fingernails can be in medicare dependent clinics. When I worked dialysis fake nails were banned flat out, and your nails couldn't be more than .25 in.

 

[VentMedic]

If you work in some hospital situations like NICU, PICU, SICU, L&D, etc, there are many restrictions. Even the less restrictive units will enforce most of these.

No perfume.
No fake nails.
No long nails.
No jewelry.
No gum.
Fit tests to see which masks are appropriate. If you have a beard, you must wear the one that is to your specification and don't get caught not wearing it when appropriate or wearing one that was tested to not fit you.

Medicare may not pay for infections caused by you. They don't necessarily do the enforcing although Medicare has been known to do their own inspections of facilities instead of just relying on JCAHO. JCAHO is a picnic compared to Medicare inspections.

 

[silver]

Medicare actually has regulations stating how long an employees fingernails can be in medicare dependent clinics. When I worked dialysis fake nails were banned flat out, and your nails couldn't be more than .25 in.

fake nails were statistically proven to pose higher rates of cultures. Additionally nail polish older than a couple of days harbors more bacteria.

 

[Aidey]

Yeah, i've seen pictures of culture dishes comparing regular fingernails to fake ones. It's nasty.

Medicare inspections are scary. They came to the dialysis clinic not too long after I had been working there and they literally got out a ruler and measured fingernails and hair length. (If your hair is more than a certain number of inches it's supposed to be pulled back). They do not take their duties lightly, and they are dead serious when they say you better be doing something a certain way.

 

[Vonny]

Some things are taken a little over board. Should we rip out all our finger nails? Come on now, they can contain viruses under them.

We have to wear gloves, double gloves for some cases.... Fingernails are something we are born with, not the same as beards which are a choice.

Personally I am paranoid about contamination, not just working but in all things to do with public contact, you should see me when I have to visit a public toilet, its pathetic I know and people laugh at me all the time for it... cant help it though...Maybe I am OCD...
We can not protect ourselves from everything but we can up the odds by being careful. Having seen a MRSA wound I would do anything to try and avoid having one of my own.. That stuff is just creepy.

 

[281mustang]

EMS employment isn't a right, it's a privilege. If you're unwilling to abide by the rules and feel that your beliefs are more important than pt care then don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out. There are plenty of jobs out there where beards are permissible.

 

[firecoins]

I deleted post.

 

[firecoins]

EMS employment isn't a right, it's a privilege. If you're unwilling to abide by the rules and feel that your beliefs are more important than pt care then don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out. There are plenty of jobs out there where beards are permissible.

according to the court, EMS is a job where a beard is permissable.

 

[Aidey]

According to this one court case, in which it has been observed the city did not do a good job making their case. There have been other cases where it has been found that requiring employees to cut/shave their facial hair in order to wear necessary PPE is perfectly legal and not discrimination at all.

There is also the small issue of NFPA 1500, and the fact that these FFs may now be worthless to DC if they want to abide by any of the following rules.

[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]OSHA's requirement 29 CFR 1901.134 (g)(1) Facepiece seal protection. (i) The employer shall not permit respirators with tight-fitting facepieces to be worn by employees who have: (A) Facial hair that comes between the sealing surface of the facepiece and the face or that interferes with valve function; [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]ANSI Z88.2-1992 7.5.1 Facial Hair A respirator, either positive or negative pressure, equipped with a facepiece (tight or loose fitting) shall not be worn if the facial hair comes between the facepiece and the face or if facial hair interferes with valve function. [/FONT]
[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]NFPA 1500 5-3.9 A growth of beard or facial hair at any point where the SCBA facepiece is designed to seal with the face, regardless of the specific fit test measurement that can be obtained, or hair that could interfere with the facepiece valve function shall be prohibited for members required to use SCBA[/FONT]

 

[281mustang]

according to the court, EMS is a job where a beard is permissable.

I'm aware of the ruling in this case, I'm just stating my opinion.