Firefighters and paramedic have religious right to keep beards

[MMiz]

DC loses beard case in federal appeals court. Judge cites city's "muddled litigation strategy".

Victory for a group of firefighters and paramedics with the District of Columbia Fire & EMS Department in the fight to retain facial hair. The decision came today in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit.

In describing the decision, attorney William Iverson told Legal Times reporter Mike Scarcella that the ruling for his clients hinged on a procedural matter. Iverson, with the firm Covington & Burling, said it isn’t likely to set precedent under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act.

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[Aidey]

*facepalm*

When a FFs mask doesn't seal properly, and he runs out of air because his pack is blowing it out, or when he inhales smoke you can bet the city is going to be sued for not making them shave. Same thing when some EMS person contracts TB because their N95 didn't fit right.

 

[firecoins]

I have no problem with EMS If TB is susbected other EMS units can handle it.

 

[mycrofft]

My beard IS N-95

..............

 

[Aidey]

Or SARS, or Bacterial Meningitis, or any other of a number of nasty airbourne viruses. The whole point is that the religious observation shouldn't be allowed to interfere with the job. If a patient has to wait 20 minutes for a crew because the only crew available can't wear the proper PPE, it's interfearing.

 

[firecoins]

Or SARS, or Bacterial Meningitis, or any other of a number of nasty airbourne viruses. The whole point is that the religious observation shouldn't be allowed to interfere with the job. If a patient has to wait 20 minutes for a crew because the only crew available can't wear the proper PPE, it's interfearing.

I disagree.

 

[VentMedic]

Or SARS, or Bacterial Meningitis, or any other of a number of nasty airbourne viruses. The whole point is that the religious observation shouldn't be allowed to interfere with the job. If a patient has to wait 20 minutes for a crew because the only crew available can't wear the proper PPE, it's interfearing.

Agree.

If you are unable to do perform the duties of your job description, you should not be in that position. If all it takes if for someone to grow a beard and claim a religion, I could see several hospital and EMS employees trying that approach to avoid some patients with potentially harmful diseases. However, that isn't an excuse and the employee may have to come up with their own approved PPE if none of their employers will work for them. Their employer may be obilgated to assist but only within reason.

 

[JPINFV]

I have no problem with EMS If TB is susbected other EMS units can handle it.

So if I grow a beard I can start to decline any calls that may require droplet or airborne precautions? Sounds like a sweet way to never visit another SNF or run another "congestion" call again!

 

[Sasha]

I'd be more concerned about all the little nasties that beard is possibly picking up and brining home to your family. We wash our hands regularly, but do you wash your beard?

 

[firecoins]

I'd be more concerned about all the little nasties that beard is possibly picking up and brining home to your family. We wash our hands regularly, but do you wash your beard?

so your afraid people don't wash their beird?

 

[silver]

Many ORs offer beard covers (now of course I don't think there is a place in the OR for beards except in certain cases), so why not offer the same beard cover/protection for those with religious ideals that require beards on the ambulance?

 

[VentMedic]

Many ORs offer beard covers (now of course I don't think there is a place in the OR for beards except in certain cases), so why not offer the same beard cover/protection for those with religious ideals that require beards on the ambulance?

The beard covers in an OR do not protect against viruses and bacteria. They essentially serve the same purpose as a hair net.

 

[daedalus]

Common sense.

Where has it gone?

 

[JPINFV]

Welcome to EMS. We kicked common sense out a while ago. Enjoy your stay.

 

[silver]

The beard covers in an OR do not protect against viruses and bacteria. They essentially serve the same purpose as a hair net.

So what makes my dirty, greasy and exposed hair (hypothetical) acceptable and clean and a beard not? It can as easily transmit the same bacteria and virus to and from patient. Sure it may be closer to susceptible areas like nose, mouth and eyes, but maybe I enjoy running my hands through my hair.
A lot of times proper protection and hygiene is not taken with hair which causes problems.
(I don't support beards, but they can pose the same risks as hair on the top of the head)

Sure the beards might not seal very well with a mask, but a lot people wear their mask very laxly in EMS

 

[PotatoMedic]

I say make all the people who want to grow beards sign forms regarding illness and injuries that may be caused by improper mask fit. Then shove them into desk jobs. (or let them "die" out. Not trying to be synical (sp?)).

 

[Sasha]

so your afraid people don't wash their beird?

No, I'm just curious if at the end of a shift, what would that beard test positive for carrying? You wash your hands (hopefully) after every patient, but I have yet to see someone break out some shampoo and water for that mass of hair jutting off their face.

 

[Aidey]

I'm not bothered by the potential cleanliness of the hair so much as I am bothered by the implications. Basically these people now can say that they don't have to wear PPE because it doesn't work with their facial hair, and they have a right to keep the facial hair. This means that either the patients will suffer because a crew might not be available. Or alternatively a EMS provider may be exposed to an illness, and who is going to be blamed?

 

[VentMedic]

Originally Posted by VentMedic

The beard covers in an OR do not protect against viruses and bacteria. They essentially serve the same purpose as a hair net.

So what makes my dirty, greasy and exposed hair (hypothetical) acceptable and clean and a beard not? It can as easily transmit the same bacteria and virus to and from patient. Sure it may be closer to susceptible areas like nose, mouth and eyes, but maybe I enjoy running my hands through my hair.
A lot of times proper protection and hygiene is not taken with hair which causes problems.
(I don't support beards, but they can pose the same risks as hair on the top of the head)

Sure the beards might not seal very well with a mask, but a lot people wear their mask very laxly in EMS

If you worked in the OR, your beard and HAIR would both be covered. However, you hair is not a port of entry for viruses, bacteria and spores.

Let's just call those that don't know the proper way to wear their mask lucky. We can then call their families and patients unlucky for having such fools to look out for their well being. The mask may also be meant to protect the patient. Those that do not understand the modes of various infections probably have no clue what they are carrying on their hands, clothes and in their nares.

 

[Sasha]

However, you hair is not a port of entry for viruses, bacteria and spores.

While not a port of entry, I remember how it was discussed that MD's ties and labcoats being really... dirty with microbes and the like. Would someone's beard, if long enough, be similar?