FF fired for going straight to scene

[DrParasite]

If you work as a plumber and it's a weekend where you aren't working and stop to help at an accident scene should your boss be able to fire you?

Fair enough. the argument isn't that he broke the department's rules, but rather he responded as a civilian, and as such, the rules don't apply to him. I guess the deciding factor will be did he identify himself as a firefighter on the scene, or just a helpful bystander? an interesting defense.

But if he is just a civilian, than

When does is it to do the right thing instead of the rules-based thing?

you support his actions? you think it's right that a civilian can jump the call on a scanner? do you want to encourage scanner buffs with no training showing up at bad scenes, because "it's the right thing?"

That might be a technical defense. It might even be a valid one. I still think the department is better off without him, and for the betterment of the department, think the firing was justified.

 

[OfficerEvenEMT]

Fair enough. the argument isn't that he broke the department's rules, but rather he responded as a civilian, and as such, the rules don't apply to him. I guess the deciding factor will be did he identify himself as a firefighter on the scene, or just a helpful bystander? an interesting defense.

But if he is just a civilian, than you support his actions? you think it's right that a civilian can jump the call on a scanner? do you want to encourage scanner buffs with no training showing up at bad scenes, because "it's the right thing?"

That might be a technical defense. It might even be a valid one. I still think the department is better off without him, and for the betterment of the department, think the firing was justified.

I do not support his actions. It sounds to me that he's a whacker. I don't know anyone who isn't a whacker who listens to a scanner when off-duty. I am just playing Devil's Advocate because he seems like a good guy who doesn't have a bad bone in his body.

 

[Hunter]

If you work as a plumber and it's a weekend where you aren't working and stop to help at an accident scene should your boss be able to fire you?

If your at a coffee shop and someones complaining to someone else about a pluming problem and you go break in (without any of your equipment) and fix it, how good of a job will you be doing and should you be arrested for a BnA? That's a terrible comparison.
First of all this guy should know better than to show up to a scene on his own, he was CPR trained and has been working for the fire department for more than just a week so he should know better. Secondly he's already on probation for breaking other department policies, which shows he has a history of disregarding the rules.

One of the biggest problems during 9/11 was that a lot of people drove straight to the twin towers to help, on duty and off duty, ambulance and fire fighters who weren't dispatched. Clogging up traffic, going to the wrong areas, ect. if he really wanted to help he should have gone to his fire house and seen where they needed him and if he was needed at THAT accident he would've been sent there WITH equipment. He was On Call which means if they had called him and needed him for say a fire somewhere else in town he wouldn't have been available to help. I don't know what other problems he's had in the past so i can't say on weather or not he should be fired or not, but he should be disciplined.

 

[ffemt8978]

If he was truly "on-call" then he is subject to department regulations in responding - and he violated them while on probation. Not to mention, how many departments actually dispatch via scanner? Everyone I've ever seen uses radios or pagers to dispatch.

If he was not on-call, then he's no different than anybody else listening to calls on the scanner and responding to the scene - he had absolutely no business being there.

 

[OfficerEvenEMT]

If he was truly "on-call" then he is subject to department regulations in responding - and he violated them while on probation. Not to mention, how many departments actually dispatch via scanner? Everyone I've ever seen uses radios or pagers to dispatch.

If he was not on-call, then he's no different than anybody else listening to calls on the scanner and responding to the scene - he had absolutely no business being there.

True on both counts.

 

[King Wasabi]

Lets look at this another way...

neither her nor his department was wasn't dispatched to the scene. he was acting as a random civilian. he heard a back wreck on the scanner, and decided to help out. If this is to be permitted, should we let anyone with a scanner who hears a back wreck just come down to help out? I can't speak about anyone else, but we have law enforcement remove these people from scenes.


it's one thing if he stops at the scene on the way to the firehouse. that's the right thing to do. it's another to hear a back call on a scanner and go to "help out."

He has no EMS training, no equipment, he even said all he was going to do was do CPR or traffic control. and the cops and the medics were already there.

the rules exist for a reason. I don't want any untrained off duty responders hearing the call is bad on a scanner and "helping out" when I am on a call; that makes them just another liability that I have to worry about. If I need more help, I can call for it, and the people on the other ambulances or fire trucks will show up.

I stand my original opinion. He broke the rules, and had no reason to be at that scene. He deserves to be fired.

could not agree with you more, to add to what you said,
I read he was on duty and 9 miles away from the station if there was any grey area in were he should respond to, could have he called his supervisor/officer? the whole deal sounds real silly.
and shows he does not no much by saying he could help do CPR. . .
if he was off duty and crusin down the rd., first on scene, much different case.

 

[Tigger]

I think the most appropriate method of responding is to only do it if you can get there in seconds, before anybody else. That is, if you see the accident happen or happen to hear a call to a scene only a block away. Even then, the only appropriate actions would be to provide immediate life-saving care such as CPR or applying tourniquets, but once the on-duty responders arrive, it is irresponsible to be the puppy tailing along saying "Hey! I'm an off-duty FF with no gear and a basic EMT cert! What can I do!" Once the on-duty responders show, you should give them any important info, hand off the chest compressions, and leave. NO Exceptions of course for mass casualty events.

Fixed that for you. MCIs do not change the game. Self-dispatching is always a no no.