Feedback: Open Letter To MMiz

[Summit]

Well, I had intended to contribute this in another thread, but it was locked and I wanted to make a more poignant point in addition to my last post.

We existed before 08-20-2008.

Alrighty then, consider I'm the 3rd oldest non-Mod who still posts here (behind ResTech and Luno).

Mike,

My observations over the last 5 years have led me to conclude that you have an idea of how things ought to work on your forum, how you want them to work. I've also learned that my lengthy stay doesn't mean anything to you, just as people's contributions here gives their opinions on the community no credence in your mind. You pay little attention to others with differing opinions regardless of their experience or contribution to your venture. If the members, the people who CREATE YOUR CONTENT which ATTRACTS MORE MEMBERS and SUSTAINS THE CRITICAL MASS OF YOUR COMMUNITY run afoul of your idyllic fantasy in the slightest way, well, you figure a new one will replace them soon enough and that's best for everyone. Contributors are ultimately disposable resources for you. You fail to realize that contributors drive member retention and new members joining. I've observed that you are extremely hard headed and your attitude is very much "my way or the highway." You do not tolerate dissent well. You close threads that object.

You need to remember that you aren't the first people to ever start and run a forum and my observations are based on my experience as a moderator and participant in many more forums for much longer than you all. I've watched forums thrive and fail depending on the moderation decisions and the community they affect.

Mike, this is your house. It's your right to run it how you want. However, that doesn't make it right. It won't make your community all that it can be, and your ideal community will never be obtained by your present methods.

 

[mycrofft]

Try the LA County Fire's CERT site.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz-_-

 

[lightsandsirens5]

I think that Miz is just trying to create a site where people can have a friendly discussion w/o having evrything degenerate into an all out war. Sometimes to prevent anarchy things cannot be exactly as some want them. To get a workable solution sometimes you have to make sacrifices and that may just be one of them.

Now I shut up and get off this thread since the mods are probably keeping a list of all who view it and will in a massive purge eliminate us all! lol (Just kidding, just kidding, JUST KIDDING!!!) (Hope they heard that)

 

[Bosco578]

Well said Summit! I'm sure most have already noticed the "big players" are done here........such a shame. :sad:

 

[reaper]

Summit has said it as nicely as possible. I have watched this forum go down hill fast in the last few months. There are no educating discussions anymore. This has caused those that did have teaching posts, to up and stop posting. The forum has turned into a crappy blog now.

Yes, this is your forum to run as you see fit. I would have expected more of wanting to have a lively educating forum and not taking my toy and going home!

I hope that this place does get back to the way it was. Whether there were fights, disagreements, or hurt feelings, there was always education. This feel good, everyone wins attitude will do the noobs more harm then good.

Hope this place changes, but it may be to late!

 

[EMS49393]

Going back to EMTCity

I also agree with what's been said here by Summit. I came here looking for another place to grow, learn, and talk with people in my profession. The number of posts about pants, stethoscopes, whacker bags, etc. far outweigh any educational posts such as case studies, unusual ECG's, and the like. I don't feel that I should have to wade through numerous duplicate posts that coddle people for not utilizing the search function in order to get to one discussion that is actually educational only to have that discussion locked or deleted. No offense, but I haven't seen one moderator that is even a paramedic, so I completely understand why discussions about educational standards and such would scare you and prompt you to want to abolish the thread.

Run the forum as you see fit, as it is your forum. I'm sure my post will be deleted, if not the entire thread.

You pretty much ran off all the posters that I care to get into discussions with, which doesn't hurt me very much considering I can find them on the City, creating posts and having intelligent discussions with other members. Those you didn't run off you banned, but again, I can find them on the City, so I'm not heartbroken.

Someone asked for an alternative EMS forum, so before this post disappears and I get banned, I hope you see it. I hope to see you there.

Don't ban me, just delete me. I'm too professional to want to be associated with this mockery of EMS. It's no wonder we can't get past being ambulance drivers.

 

[Lifeguards For Life]

As Chimpie posted a PM, I think I can infer I can do so as well. Here is a copy of a most recent letter recently sent to MMIZ, by myself, which he has not acknowledged. Anyone who reads the inflamatory posts thread can see where he invited this via PM or Email.

"Oh, sorry.
I know the thread got locked, but is that issue still up for civilized debate? I acknowledge some of my posts in it were challenging, and i apologize. I do recognize you and your teams wishes to create a safe, effective online community that is enjoyable for all, though i ask of you if where that line lays can be re evaluated. I fully understand why and how some posts are inappropriate, but on the other hand, as a frequent visitor of your site, i can also see where some debates, as i and many others feel get closed unnecessarily. For instance, do you believe that closing that inflammatory posts thread was warranted, other than me challenging you too?(i was surprised you closed it, i think that was a strategic move on your part). I do enjoy your site ,and wish to continue a membership here. And while i am not advocating this site goes free for all, i recognize the need for balance, i ask of you, maybe we as a community should recalibrate the scale?"

And if the as of late typical "what makes you think this is a democracy and your ideas and opinion are valid?", I ask of the members, why should it be anything less? Shouldn't the management exist to serve the members, if not for what purpose? I do believe the moderators are trying to serve the members i just think that they are doing it wrong. It seems to me the management at times is often irradicate and inconsistent.

 

[dewd09]

Without healthy debate and disagreement, Emergency Medical Services would have died off long ago. Just remember, you have no rights on the internet. This is the administrators property, to run and maintain as he or she sees fit. The Freedom of Speech, doesn't apply to private internet web locations. It's okay to disagree, even in person; but if a public gathering turned to cursing, accusations, name slinging, etc.. It would likely be broken up by LEO's. Think of this, like a public gathering. Be a pleasant, contributing member of your community; or stay on the side and watch. This was the view and opinion that I formed, after reading the rules. Seems pretty square.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

Gentlemen and ladies, it was an honor playing with you.

*picks up a violin and plays "Nearer My God to Thee"*

 

[Onceamedic]

I got a warning for castigating someone on a very common, misspelled word in the title of their post. The person challenging me on it - in the original thread - was way more out of line than I was. I exercised what I thought was great self restraint in not ripping the thought policeman a new one, but I got a warning never the less.

I have not posted on this site in months. The longer I run in the field and the more calls I get under my belt, the less patience I have for the whacker light, stethoscope, how fast can I be a paramedic posts.

I would be happy to respond to some of them, but they get defensive and then I call em on it... and you know how that goes.

I have questions. I had a patient diagnosed with baclofen withdrawal that I did an emergent transport on whose symptoms were not consistent with the norm. Maybe it was AD. It never occurred to me to ask here, because most of the people that could have given me GOOD answers are gone.

 

[rescue99]

agree

Without healthy debate and disagreement, Emergency Medical Services would have died off long ago. Just remember, you have no rights on the internet. This is the administrators property, to run and maintain as he or she sees fit. The Freedom of Speech, doesn't apply to private internet web locations. It's okay to disagree, even in person; but if a public gathering turned to cursing, accusations, name slinging, etc.. It would likely be broken up by LEO's. Think of this, like a public gathering. Be a pleasant, contributing member of your community; or stay on the side and watch. This was the view and opinion that I formed, after reading the rules. Seems pretty square.

It really is as simple as being responsible enough to show the same sort of verbal respect in which one expects. Not a soul has said, don't argue. No one has said, don't banter and never challenge. No one has forbidden anything at all that is educational. Not that I've seen so far anyway.

If people can't write a post or response without being grossly inappropriate in their delivery then it's all on them if they leave. We want recognition as professionals yet, not act respectable? In here would be a good beginning...starting with how we address each other IMO.

 

[EMTinNEPA]

If you think the educational powerhouses of this forum lack civility, you should see how attendings address interns during rounds.

 

[guardian528]

Good evening, EMTLife. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine- the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition. I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, thereby those important events of the past usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, a celebration of a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this October the 1st, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak. I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this forum, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, MMiz. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed an ambulance, to remind this forum of what it has forgotten. More than four hundred years ago a great citizen wished to embed the first of October forever in our memory. His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of these Community Leaders remain unknown to you then I would suggest you allow the first of October to pass unmarked. But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of EMTLife, and together we shall give them a first of October that shall never, ever be forgot.

from V for Vendetta, with some words changed of course ^_^

this little "argument" is starting to sound more and more like the plot of V for Vendetta, so I thought i'd point it out haha

p.s. no disrespect meant, just a joke. . .

 

[Summit]

Not a soul has said, don't argue. No one has said, don't banter and never challenge. No one has forbidden anything at all that is educational.

The problem is people will get their feelings hurt in strong discussions because, *gasp* people are disagreeing with them! It's a short jump from this to "they weren't respecting me! they were mean!" when really people are simply upset because the other side dares to disagree or questions their beliefs. People get particularly upset when their beliefs are questioned by strong and well supported arguments that are hard to counter. This commonly results in emotional reactions and the less mature will view it as a personal attack.

Welcome to professional debate where counterpoints don't have to, and in fact, are not supposed to be sugar coated.

But what is the policy here? If you think there is a remote possibility that your post might upset someone in some way,

play it safe and refrain from posting. Don't risk it.

That reflects a policy that will stifle educational debate, policy discussion, and controversy and leave us only with threads where folks pat each other on the back.

EMS IS NOT A PROFESSION FOR THE THIN SKINNED.

If you think the educational powerhouses of this forum lack civility, you should see how attendings address interns during rounds.

 

[enjoynz]

BTW Summit...Mmiz name is not Mike

Cheers Enjoynz

 

[Summit]

BTW Summit...Mmiz name is not Mike

Hahahah... in my mind he has always been a Mike.

 

[Meursault]

/me pops popcorn and settles in.

This seems familiar. inb4 wave of baww-/rage-/boredom quits, mods reassert community principles, discussion drops off temporarily but rebounds almost to pre-drama levels, remaining regulars avoid discussing issues with forum, and the site slowly stagnates.

Or the b&hammer is wielded with extreme prejudice and the parties that initiated this disappear, leaving more of a cauterized wound than a gaping, still-bleeding hole and temporarily averting the first scenario.

 

[rescue99]

The problem is people will get their feelings hurt in strong discussions because, *gasp* people are disagreeing with them! It's a short jump from this to "they weren't respecting me! they were mean!" when really people are simply upset because the other side dares to disagree or questions their beliefs. People get particularly upset when their beliefs are questioned by strong and well supported arguments that are hard to counter. This commonly results in emotional reactions and the less mature will view it as a personal attack.

Welcome to professional debate where counterpoints don't have to, and in fact, are not supposed to be sugar coated.

But what is the policy here? If you think there is a remote possibility that your post might upset someone in some way, That reflects a policy that will stifle educational debate, policy discussion, and controversy and leave us only with threads where folks pat each other on the back.

EMS IS NOT A PROFESSION FOR THE THIN SKINNED.

Actually, I find those who respond with belligerence to be showing off their own insecurities. Momma never told em others had opinions that might differ from their's perhaps..who knows! When paper thin skin gets rubbed, chaffing seems to occur on a regular basis. Yelping then ensues which in turn takes the place of any meaningful conversation. Just an opinion..not gospel.

 

[MMiz]

I've also learned that my lengthy stay doesn't mean anything to you, just as people's contributions here gives their opinions on the community no credence in your mind.

You're correct, the day in which you joined EMTLife means very little to me. I've learned as both a professional and human that titles and labels mean very little. It's the interactions I've had over the time you've been here that means something to me. That fact that over the past five years you've been able to articulate yourself in a professional manner that means something to me.

You pay little attention to others with differing opinions regardless of their experience or contribution to your venture.

I disagree, but recognize your position.

If the members, the people who CREATE YOUR CONTENT which ATTRACTS MORE MEMBERS and SUSTAINS THE CRITICAL MASS OF YOUR COMMUNITY run afoul of your idyllic fantasy in the slightest way, well, you figure a new one will replace them soon enough and that's best for everyone.

I value our members and their contributions to the community. Just because a member feels that he or she is a vital part of the community doesn't make it so. I feel that the ability to post a message, or a few hundred messages, doesn't necessarily make a member a valuable part of our community. If a member is unable to constructively contribute to the community in a positive manner, then it's best that he or she refrain from posting.

Contributors are ultimately disposable resources for you. You fail to realize that contributors drive member retention and new members joining.

I see our members as individual members of the EMTLife community. It appears as though you see yourself and every member as the most valuable person in the community, and that's not the case.

I've observed that you are extremely hard headed and your attitude is very much "my way or the highway." You do not tolerate dissent well. You close threads that object.

I, along with others, created EMTLife. If you're not happy here, I sincerely hope that you find another community that better meets your needs. I don't have the time, nor the energy, to battle it out with you.

You need to remember that you aren't the first people to ever start and run a forum and my observations are based on my experience as a moderator and participant in many more forums for much longer than you all. I've watched forums thrive and fail depending on the moderation decisions and the community they affect.

I will never underestimate or undervalue the significance of effective leadership, but this isn't about flourishing or failing. The forum exists because of our members, and it will continue to exist because of our members.

Mike, this is your house. It's your right to run it how you want. However, that doesn't make it right. It won't make your community all that it can be, and your ideal community will never be obtained by your present methods.

I don't ask that you agree with my actions, but I'd hope that you'd find me fair. If not, then that's a personal issue that we need to discuss via private message.

At EMTLife you have the right to contribute to a community in a positive manner. You have the right to post in a thread without fear of being belittled because you mentioned one of the thousand taboo topics or phrases.

I will continue to commit myself to supporting the values I believe in and the guiding principles that act as the foundation of EMTLife. There are literally thousands of communities on the internet, and I hope that if you decide to no longer frequent EMTLife that you remain active elsewhere.

 

[trackmedic]

See you in the city.