Federal officers delayed, threatened to ‘shoot and arrest’ ambulance crew at Portland ICE facility, report says

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Yep, that applies to both sides.
Oh, it ain’t random ICE cups or inflatable frogs I don’t trust…we know them.

It’s the people in public service who justify, deny, empower, deflect, dissuade and ultimately enable their shenanigans.

They’re the weak links in the social barricade that let the flaming place-crash of wrecked jet fighter through to hurt the deck crew. They’re the ones who justify the unjustifiable just to avoid taking a stand for anything. Men without courage, men of weak honor, men who don’t meet the moment. Unreliable men. Men of such integrity as to be detailed as camp guards in Arizona, not to Overlord.
 
Oh, it ain’t random ICE cups or inflatable frogs I don’t trust…we know them.

It’s the people in public service who justify, deny, empower, deflect, dissuade and ultimately enable their shenanigans.

They’re the weak links in the social barricade that let the flaming place-crash of wrecked jet fighter through to hurt the deck crew. They’re the ones who justify the unjustifiable just to avoid taking a stand for anything. Men without courage, men of weak honor, men who don’t meet the moment. Unreliable men. Men of such integrity as to be detailed as camp guards in Arizona, not to Overlord.
Once again, you're not helping your case any by resorting to hyperbole and emotion.
 
Oh, it ain’t random ICE cups or inflatable frogs I don’t trust…we know them.

It’s the people in public service who justify, deny, empower, deflect, dissuade and ultimately enable their shenanigans.

They’re the weak links in the social barricade that let the flaming place-crash of wrecked jet fighter through to hurt the deck crew. They’re the ones who justify the unjustifiable just to avoid taking a stand for anything. Men without courage, men of weak honor, men who don’t meet the moment. Unreliable men. Men of such integrity as to be detailed as camp guards in Arizona, not to Overlord.
Just because i dont like hypocrisy... What about the women?
 
Oh, it ain’t random ICE cups or inflatable frogs I don’t trust…we know them.

It’s the people in public service who justify, deny, empower, deflect, dissuade and ultimately enable their shenanigans.

They’re the weak links in the social barricade that let the flaming place-crash of wrecked jet fighter through to hurt the deck crew. They’re the ones who justify the unjustifiable just to avoid taking a stand for anything. Men without courage, men of weak honor, men who don’t meet the moment. Unreliable men. Men of such integrity as to be detailed as camp guards in Arizona, not to Overlord.
You’ve convicted those ICE agents in your heart based on a snippet and a news story.

Those of us with more level heads are merely saying “let’s let the facts come out”.

The fact that you can’t see the difference between our approach and enabling is profound.

Go ahead, triple down, satiate your own ego some more..
 
You’ve convicted those ICE agents in your heart based on a snippet and a news story.

Those of us with more level heads are merely saying “let’s let the facts come out”.

The fact that you can’t see the difference between our approach and enabling is profound.

Go ahead, triple down, satiate your own ego some more..
You and I both know that there are no more “facts” to come out, and those that do are going to be the transmission characteristics of a Ford Econoline and the obvious hotheadedness in impulsivity of an armed federal law-enforcement officer
 
@RocketMedic - not sure why you felt it necessary to private message me that you’re “200% sure I’d find a way to justify ICE’s behavior” but I base my opinions on facts and personal experiences, not media frenzy.
 
I have one simple question for the “both sides” people here:

What if that was your crew?

We all know that your crews aren’t wearing body cameras, and that our trucks lurch a bit when the gears shift, and that it’s fairly unlikely ICE would ever release body camera footage (I mean, they already generally don’t wear them, in defiance of federal court orders, and how do you even get it from a federal agency that snubs literal judges?)

Do you pull your dashcam and hope you captured the interaction? And if so…

What then?

If you really do have evidence of ICE threatening your people, are you going to lecture and reassure them to play nice with the rogues with guns, or do you like stand up and do the right thing, or what? What do you do when your little world of “oh, they would never!” Collapses in the face of …but they did and they are…?

Do you like add a supervisor to every potential ICE call…and would that change anything? What if they simply assault your crew too? I mean, paramedic, pastor…why not?

What do you do when law enforcement officers are going rogue and attacking your community? Reference Chicago, where they tear-gassed CPD officers right alongside peaceful protesters.

I hope I don’t have to deal with this. I hope any interactions I have with ICE are positive, professional and productive and that all parties involved comport themselves professionally. But that is mutually exclusive with them threatening to execute my partner because they feel threatened. And when federal law-enforcement officers are threatening to execute people because they’re mildly uncomfortable, in a relatively safe space, I think there’s a greater problem than one hotheaded person.
 
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@RocketMedic - not sure why you felt it necessary to private message me that you’re “200% sure I’d find a way to justify ICE’s behavior” but I base my opinions on facts and personal experiences, not media frenzy.
because the “media frenzy” around this is about as vigorous as a goldfish. And I’m pretty certain that at least some of the posters here would welcome any violation ICE fields because you’re very deferential to authority.
 
The dashcam would provide the factual evidence this incident has been lacking so far, and would dramatically change the conversation...as would any security camera footage provided either/both would be released in its entirety and unedited.

If it shows what you believe, then the agency and individuals have options for redress which involve certain procedures (IG complaints, legal action, etc).

By the same coin, what would *you* do if it turns out the dashcam showed it never happened and the crew made it up, or it happened because they actually drove towards the agent?
 
because the “media frenzy” around this is about as vigorous as a goldfish. And I’m pretty certain that at least some of the posters here would welcome any violation ICE fields because you’re very deferential to authority.
So anyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically deferential to authority? So it has absolutely nothing to do with waiting for the facts?
 
The dashcam would provide the factual evidence this incident has been lacking so far, and would dramatically change the conversation...as would any security camera footage provided either/both would be released in its entirety and unedited.

If it shows what you believe, then the agency and individuals have options for redress which involve certain procedures (IG complaints, legal action, etc).

By the same coin, what would *you* do if it turns out the dashcam showed it never happened and the crew made it up, or it happened because they actually drove towards the agent?
Well, in the unlikely event that our crew went Social Justice Warrior with an Econoline, I’d recommend criminal charges as appropriate. But given that the extent of the interaction seems to have been “the truck moved, so he threatened to kill me (itself a violation of policy and escalation-of-force guidelines)” and unaccountable law enforcement insisting on inserting themselves into someone’s medical care without sssuming responsibility for them via Arrest, I’d suspect you’d be sorely disappointed in your quest to whitewash the cold boys.
 
because the “media frenzy” around this is about as vigorous as a goldfish. And I’m pretty certain that at least some of the posters here would welcome any violation ICE fields because you’re very deferential to authority.
Dude you are insufferable..
 
So anyone who doesn't agree with you is automatically deferential to authority? So it has absolutely nothing to do with waiting for the facts?
Has nothing to do with “waiting for facts.” We both know evidence from this incident, of any, will never be propagated because AMR and the federal government both have an interest in keeping it suppressed and the words of a crew mean literally nothing in comparison.

At best, it will be a brief internal memo to play nice with ice and be very deferential to them.
 
Has nothing to do with “waiting for facts.” We both know evidence from this incident, of any, will never be propagated because AMR and the federal government both have an interest in keeping it suppressed and the words of a crew mean literally nothing in comparison.

At best, it will be a brief internal memo to play nice with ice and be very deferential to them.
That is a distinct possibility if not a probability, yet you're willing to condem and convict based upon the incomplete facts presented so far.

Well, in the unlikely event that our crew went Social Justice Warrior with an Econoline, I’d recommend criminal charges as appropriate. But given that the extent of the interaction seems to have been “the truck moved, so he threatened to kill me (itself a violation of policy and escalation-of-force guidelines)” and unaccountable law enforcement insisting on inserting themselves into someone’s medical care without sssuming responsibility for them via Arrest, I’d suspect you’d be sorely disappointed in your quest to whitewash the cold boys.
That's fair enough, but what do you say to the media and public afterwards?

And what is your source for the claim that an officer who believes he may be struck by a vehicle is violating the Use of Force policy?

Might as well cover the whole patient may have been detained while ICE determined if charges were warranted, meaning despite the fact he was EMS's patient, he was still under the responsibility of ICE. And lets face it...a broken collarbone is not the most emergent injury.
 
Has nothing to do with “waiting for facts.” We both know evidence from this incident, of any, will never be propagated because AMR and the federal government both have an interest in keeping it suppressed and the words of a crew mean literally nothing in comparison.

At best, it will be a brief internal memo to play nice with ice and be very deferential to them.
You really need to stop assuming people believe the way you do.
 
If it shows what you believe, then the agency and individuals have options for redress which involve certain procedures (IG complaints, legal action, etc).

It’s worth noting that ICE has a long, pre-Trump record of blatantly ignoring their own policies, and that their current behaviors are making a mockery of any form of legal accountability for their actions. Completely outside our argument, I think there’s a good case to be made that ICE functionally doesn’t care about the laws of the United States at this point, because they consider themselves immune from them.
 
You really need to stop assuming people believe the way you do.
Well, clearly, at least three of you in this thread do entertain the thought that an American secret police organization that uses the Constitution as toilet paper is at least acceptable, because “solidarity with law enforcement!”

@FFEMT: if the crew went SJW, then I’d give no statement at all. Fire takes oxygen to burn, don’t give it any. But your straw man is noted – you clearly believe that it is more likely for a private ambulance crew to try and attack ice, as opposed to acknowledging that the unaccountable para military secret police may have simply expanded their target list a little bit, and you’re clearly contorting your thought process to try and justify ICE at every opportunity. I am extremely glad that you are not my boss, I feel that you would find a way to throw a crew under the bus for any of your biases. Same for FiremanMike- you claim that there’s two sides to every story, but I do not think that you have the ability to actually stand up for what is right when an authority group is clearly in the wrong. It’s kind of like detonating random boats in the Caribbean and Pacific… you can claim that it’s right and legal, but you know for a fact that it’s wrong. But that would be getting off-topic. Point being, I think that you gentlemen should probably take a step back and reevaluate your personal reputations before you start lending ice your credibility.

Because that’s how these people operate. They commit an unjustifiable, unreasonable action… And then they wait for you to justify it, and then they do it again. And again. And then they push the limits and do it again. And every time, they’re watching you justify it, or ignore it, or try to rationalize it. And when you do those things, you’re expending your credibility. It starts off as a rational, reason approach. Then it turns into collaboration. Eventually, you’re a full-blown enabler.

And when the political wins shift and accountability is installed or enforced, you’re held up right next to the people who did the unjustifiable. After all, it was your credibility that got them there. You might never face charges, but your community will know exactly what your role was. Your people will know exactly what your role was, and how you supported the illegal, unconstitutional, it unsupportable. They will remember how you ignored the warning signs and marginal incidents and took no action except for a tepid defense of the ice agents.

Do you want to know what my answer to this would’ve been? I’ll let you know, because I feel like I’m about to get banned.

Immediate and massive public release of every bit of evidence from the truck. Dash camera footage if available, subpoenas of all body camera footage, and a vigorous and full throated defense of my crew, irrespective of the facts of the case. Why? Because at the end of the day, that service in that crew are serving the citizens of Portland, Oregon they are not serving ice, they are not serving the Trump administration, and they are there to provide emergency medical care to the people of Portland. They are residents of the Portland area, and they have to live in that community. Even if they’re wrong, I would rather my crew be safe, protected, and respected by their community for doing the right thing by their community as opposed to letting ice make a mockery of the constitution in their patient’s rights. In fact, I would support my crew if they told ice to leave, that they were unwanted and unneeded in that situation, and if they wanted to arrest the patient they could do so, but would have to document it. I would support them publicly, and I would support them with the cooperation of my state and federal political representatives. I would have the governor in the mayor and the senators and the congressman right next to me while I politely told ice that they had no authority to do any of what they did to that crowd, and if they wanted to contest it, they can come up and beat me on stage with truncheons. And, of course, there’s a reason for this: I would fully intend for my career in my service to the public to exceed the term of a lame duck president and his un- accountable band of secret police cosplayers.

Those of you that would try to blame your crew for what is pretty obviously a significant overreach and threat by an ice agent are absolutely sickening, it betrays that you have absolutely no understanding of just how fickle “hard evidence“ actually is in a lot of cases. Shows a lot about your own personalities, though, I hope that we never meet professionally.
 
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Well, clearly, at least three of you in this thread do entertain the thought that an American secret police organization that uses the Constitution as toilet paper is at least acceptable, because “solidarity with law enforcement!”
You seriously need to stop projecting your biases and maybe accept the fact we're not willing to rush to judgement based upon incomplete facts and one side of the story. It's the same reaction many have when EMS is accused of something by family or patients...or would you prefer they face consequences based solely upon someone saying something to the media?
 
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