ETOH College Student Vs College Policy Vs State Law

[rsqsquad91]

Thank you all for your advice and input.

 

[DrParasite]

We have a college campus in town (catholic private school) who has a policy on campus that states, Any student that is caught intoxicated must not stay on campus. They also have an additional policy that states that sober friends and roommates are not allowed to watch the student on campus.

The issue here is the college's policy is to protect them from liability, nothing more, nothing less. With several reports of kids dying due to alcohol poisoning, they over reacted and now say that anyone under 21 with alcohol in their system must be taken to the ED to be observed until they sober up.

The RA has no say in the matter; at most, he or she can have the student removed from campus housing, by college security. I have been a college student... I have been a drunk college student.... I have been a very drunk college student, while underage.... Being drunk isn't a medical condition, unless there are other factors in play (unable to talk, injured post fall, unable to awake from an alcohol induced coma, etc).

The college RA's are adamant about giving us a hard time by "letting this student refuse to go to the hospital." In the end, the RA's or the college EMT's convince the patient to go to the hospital by continually saying to them they will go to jail if they don't.

Whether or not the student gets arrested isn't your problem; that is between the LEO and the student. And if the LEO isn't going to arrest him, than it's a non issue. The RAs can make the threat all the time, it's up to the cops to determine if a crime has occurred

If the college RAs have that much of an issue, tell them to make an appointment with your agency head (chief, captain, director, whatever), where they can discuss policy during business hours over coffee. They should probably make an appointment with the police chief too to make sure they are both on the same page.

Me to patient: if you don't want to go to the hospital, please sign here.
RA to patient: if you don't go to the hospital, you are going to jail.
Me to both RA and patient: well, he's not going to the hospital. Officer, is he going to jail?
officer: has he committed a crime worthy of being arrested?
Me: probably not, but that's up to you. if you don't have grounds to arrest him, and I'm not taking him to the ER, we should go grab some coffee at Dunkin Donuts. This way we won't interfere with the RA who is doing his job.

 

[Rialaigh]

This is an alert and oriented person who did not request us and has no medical complaint. This is a no patient found all day in my book. I would ook at the person and wish them a nice night, and look at the RA and say the patient is alert and oriented and states he is not a harm to himself or others, have a good night.

If they threaten the jail or hospital or they coerce the patient into going who clearly didn't want to go then the patient can walk to my ambulance, ill take two sets of vitals and explain that if he wants to sign a refusal he can get out and go back to bed. have a goodnight.....

 

[ERDoc]

Being drunk isn't a medical condition

THIS. Why is this so hard for people to understand? There is no reason to take this kid to the hospital. I'd explain to the RA that there is no medical condition and that you will not be transporting. If the RA wants to take the kid the hospital he is more than welcome to. If I saw this kid, based on the info given, he'd have his discharge papers in his hand before he even got his gown on. If the college wants to get drunk kids off their campus then they need to figure out where to put them. The wrong place is the ER, taking up an ambulance and a bed from someone who actually has a medical problem. I had an LEO bring someone that was under arrest to the ER because they had an BAL of 240. No medical conditions, no complaints, fully alert and cooperative. The officer tells me that we can't discharge the guy because the jail won't take him. Sorry bud, I've got a waiting room full of people that need to be seen. He's go no medical problems, he doesn't need to be here. It's up to you when you do with him from here. If the cops don't want the student, that's too bad for the college. They need to think through their policies and not place the issue on someone else.

I think DrP hit the nail on the head. A meeting needs to be set up. It's unlikely the college is going to do it so maybe the OPs agency can take the initiative and stop the nonsense.

 

[NysEms2117]

The answer to this lies with the chart that epiEms posted... INTERNAL POSSESION. if the "patient"/college student has not committed another crime such as threatening or whatever else you want to imagine drunk people doing, the officer cannot arrest him. the whole "judgement of the officer" thing is only the state(s) that have internal possession laws, because jails are out of room the same way ER's are. This college has one of the most ridiculous rules i've ever seen. The one line answer to this "question" would be:
Tell the RA to go back to his/her room, let the LEO say "i'm not going to/cannot take him", tell the kid to go to bed with a garbage can at the side of their bed. (friendly advice), tell everybody to have a good night, and walk away".
Also any cop in a city probably has something else to be doing on a night when this would happen (mainly the weekends late night early morning)..

 

[ExpatMedic0]

If management is not helping I would consider contacting your medical director about this. Its his or her licence your working under and if there is no medical necessity for hospital admission and transport then maybe he can help rectify the situation verbally with the university or formally with a written SOP or protocol for this exact situation. Once you pass the buck to LE and the university then its their problem

 

[ExpatMedic0]

By the way, I just wanna add I was called to an apartment one time because some guys daughter wouldn't listen to him... No idea how that came down as an EMS call, but we just explained there was no medical necessity for an ambulance, passed the buck to LE, and left