Enrolling in Medic School, advice?

[ochacon80]

Good evening all.

I was wondering if anyone could give me some insight into Mount Sac medic program. I have heard both good and bad things about it, but the one common thing I keep hearing is that they teach a lot of things you wont use on the field. I originally wanted to go to UCLAs program but I do not have the money to attend.

I am currently reading Dubins EKG book as well as a pathophysiology book, is there any other book out I could read that would give me a little help when im in? I already have anatomy classes under by belt. Also, is it true that it is not possible to work and go to medic school at the same time? I am in a two income family, but if I was to completely stop working, it could make things difficult.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[daedalus]

You are going to hear good and bad things about all paramedic programs in California, and probably everywhere in the United States. My advice, don't listen, and go to the one you can afford. Right now, all schools in California are accredited and Mt Sac is a community college which means you will pay less than Daniel Freeman or NCTI Riverside.

It is all about what you put into it. If you really want to learn how to do your job, you will read and research outside of class. I have never heard of a paramedic school that can give good lectures, unfortunately. Most just use Brady powerpoints which royally suck and will not prepare you for tests or the field.

Reading up on prehospital pharmacology and pathophysiology are great ways to really prepare and get your brain into the proper mindset for paramedic school. If you are solid on those and your A&P you will find paramedic school that difficult.

 

[medic417]

And as to teaching you more than you will do in the field are you content to know only the minimum? Also understand that just because your area has limited protocols does not mean that everywhere is that way. So if you learn something perhaps if you ever move you will be able to put it into practice.

 

[Akulahawk]

If you want to go to medic school, do it. In the end, you'll get out of it what YOU put into it. I'm assuming that you've got college level A&P... you're ahead of the game. Good. The better schools will teach you things that you won't use in the field in a particular area, but that you might be able to use somewhere else. It's good to learn all that stuff. If you understand pharmacology and pathophysiology, you'll be even better off, and you won't find Paramedic School that tough.

Go to the school that you can afford.

 

[ah2388]

I myself am a Medic student..

My input is somewhat skewed because I have yet to complete my program, but from what I've seen so far...these guys are exactly right, Patho and Pharm are two areas you will spend a ton of time on and having advanced knowledge of either is going to get you ahead of the game.

 

[ResTech]

And as to teaching you more than you will do in the field are you content to know only the minimum?

I think it is a disadvantage to drill stuff into students that they are rarely or not ever going to encounter. As a Paramedic student, I think the didactic portion of the program should be focused on the common, critical areas that are going to be frequently encountered in the pre-hospital environment and will prepare one for National Registry. There is enough of the entry level ALS knowledge to learn and get comfortable with without having an overzealous instructor going off on tangents about exotic diseases or procedures.

If your not prepared for and pass National Registry, then all your time is wasted. There will be many educational opportunities to go above and beyond after one gets the gold patch.

Just my opinion.

 

[VentMedic]

I think it is a disadvantage to drill stuff into students that they are rarely or not ever going to encounter. As a Paramedic student, I think the didactic portion of the program should be focused on the common, critical areas that are going to be frequently encountered in the pre-hospital environment and will prepare one for National Registry. There is enough of the entry level ALS knowledge to learn and get comfortable with without having an overzealous instructor going off on tangents about exotic diseases or procedures.

If your not prepared for and pass National Registry, then all your time is wasted. There will be many educational opportunities to go above and beyond after one gets the gold patch.

Just my opinion.

I seriously doubt if he was referring to learning all the different congenital syndromes.

This is why this profession has not gone beyond a few hundred hours to get a patch. Advice such as "just pass the test and get the patch" or "you can worry about all that book learnin' stuff later" is given out too often. "You don't need to know much more than what's in you protocol book" is another great comment like "it's so easy all FFs can do it" and then some wonder why all the FFs do get a Paramedic cert. Those who grumble may themselves not want to set the bar higher.

Unfortunately if a school is only teaching you the NR test, they are doing you a great injustice. If they are only teaching A&P by one body system and fail to tell you that there is another or more to it and it might even be related, you will be in the dark when it comes to understanding how one incident or one med can affect every thing else. Too many just memorize the few things on their flashcards and fail to see how anything interacts. Thus, they may pass the test but they fail at being a good clinician.

A couple of college level A&P classes and college level pharmacology does not make you prepared to be a doctor nor will you know many syndromes. However, you will be better prepared to understand the "whys" and not just recite a few flashcards. Why do all the other heathcare profession require a few basic prerequisites? And, for a mere two year degree?

I am just mytified as to why some think an extra class is going to boggle the minds of a Paramedic student. Do some think that all of the students this profession attracts are incapable of handling a college level A&P class?

Yeah, just stick to the recipes and memorize the flashcards enough to pass the NR for your patch and don't clutter your mind with too much of that book learnin' stuff. It ain't gonna do you any good if it's not about all the cool trauma. Medical calls are boring BS usually, probably because some don't understand the disease processes, unless you work a good MI. So don't spend too much time learning anything else. That would just be a waste of time.

 

[Ridryder911]

I think it is a disadvantage to drill stuff into students that they are rarely or not ever going to encounter. As a Paramedic student, I think the didactic portion of the program should be focused on the common, critical areas that are going to be frequently encountered in the pre-hospital environment and will prepare one for National Registry. There is enough of the entry level ALS knowledge to learn and get comfortable with without having an overzealous instructor going off on tangents about exotic diseases or procedures.

If your not prepared for and pass National Registry, then all your time is wasted. There will be many educational opportunities to go above and beyond after one gets the gold patch.

Just my opinion.

So a 500 hour class is enough? I do doubt, that any Paramedic program dwells enough on anything to know about any medicine.

National Registry is a test... that's it. It does not produce standards. It follows NHTSA curriculum that is very weak. Then we teach from a junior high school level book. Yeah, let's not over whelm them.. geez!

Exotic diseases? Unfortunately, most Paramedics never are properly educated enough and are too stupid to recognize common disease disorders. It is embarrassing to have to explain or watch family and common laymen explain what general diseases are such as trisomy x, etc are; when a so called health professional should at least know something about it!

Let's quit pretending to be in health care and stop patronizing stupidity and start actually requiring students to learn and become educated. Sorry, if it takes you more than a few times to master simplistic tasks such as placing a LSB on someone; then you need to choose another career. Our curriculum is way too easy and brief enough.

R/r 911

 

[ki4mus]

Jefferson College of Health Sceinces in Roanoke VA has a strong medic program, and after this year all graduates will come out with a bachloars degree as either a NREMT-P/firefighter, or a "Critical Care" NRMT-P.... The instuctors are great!!!!


This being said....DO NOT GO HERE!!!!!! There is why to much crap that the school's admin. tries to pull to make it worth attending classes here. If I had known prior to attending just how bad it would be I would have gladdly paid to go out-of-state

 

[HotelCo]

Good evening all.

I was wondering if anyone could give me some insight into Mount Sac medic program. I have heard both good and bad things about it, but the one common thing I keep hearing is that they teach a lot of things you wont use on the field. I originally wanted to go to UCLAs program but I do not have the money to attend.

I am currently reading Dubins EKG book as well as a pathophysiology book, is there any other book out I could read that would give me a little help when im in? I already have anatomy classes under by belt. Also, is it true that it is not possible to work and go to medic school at the same time? I am in a two income family, but if I was to completely stop working, it could make things difficult.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

STUDY! STUDY! STUDY! I can't say it enough. Don't skip over parts because you learned it as an EMT, read it. Yeah, you can have a job too, depending how your class schedule is set up, and how little sleep you can handle.

 

[el Murpharino]

Also, is it true that it is not possible to work and go to medic school at the same time?

I worked full time and went to paramedic school at the same time. With proper time management, it is very do-able, although you're going to be sacrificing many nights and weekends with friends and family to your textbook.

 

[daedalus]

I feel I must also object to ResTech's opinion. Dumming class down even more than it already is? I cannot even fathom that.

 

[Sasha]

I feel I must also object to ResTech's opinion. Dumming class down even more than it already is? I cannot even fathom that.

I second that.

As long as people are satisfied with being just a mediocre ride to the hospital, the profession will NEVER advance.

 

[ResTech]

When I comment, I comment based on how things are now and not dreaming of fairytale land. When did I ever advocate "dumbing down" anything? I could have went the certificate only route but I didn't. I opted for the 2 year degree route because of personal standards I have for myself. I took A&P I and will be taking A&P II soon (as they are program standard). So no dumbing down here.

There is so much stuff to learn in Paramedic school and once out of that setting, you are forced to prioritize on level of importance what gets remembered and what gets forgotten. It's only natural to start forgetting stuff you never recall or deal with. As a new Paramedic, I want to be armed with the knowledge that is going to make that day to day difference and be bam, bam, bam with it everytime...

It's great that daedalus wants to worry about ottoscopes.... more power to ya and glad that impresses everyone... to me that is a waste... the time spent studying about that ottoscope a person could be involving themselves in how to read 12-leads or better understanding a EMS medication. That's my point. As the saying goes... crawl before ya jump...

I'm studying hard to be a PARAMEDIC... not a wannabe PA or MD.

 

[daedalus]

When I comment, I comment based on how things are now and not dreaming of fairytale land. When did I ever advocate "dumbing down" anything? I could have went the certificate only route but I didn't. I opted for the 2 year degree route because of personal standards I have for myself. I took A&P I and will be taking A&P II soon (as they are program standard). So no dumbing down here.

There is so much stuff to learn in Paramedic school and once out of that setting, you are forced to prioritize on level of importance what gets remembered and what gets forgotten. It's only natural to start forgetting stuff you never recall or deal with. As a new Paramedic, I want to be armed with the knowledge that is going to make that day to day difference and be bam, bam, bam with it everytime...

It's great that daedalus wants to worry about ottoscopes.... more power to ya and glad that impresses everyone... to me that is a waste... the time spent studying about that ottoscope a person could be involving themselves in how to read 12-leads or better understanding a EMS medication. That's my point. As the saying goes... crawl before ya jump...

I'm studying hard to be a PARAMEDIC... not a wannabe PA or MD.

So you do not think much of paramedics than. RNs, PAs, etc, all get literally slammed with so much during school, that it is compared to trying to sip water from a hire hose. I think we should be taught similar material as the PA programs.

Second, an otoscope is far more basic than a 12 lead. Also, one should be able to handle learning to use one and learning about EKG and medications.

 

[Ridryder911]

It's great that daedalus wants to worry about ottoscopes.... more power to ya and glad that impresses everyone... to me that is a waste... the time spent studying about that ottoscope a person could be involving themselves in how to read 12-leads or better understanding a EMS medication. That's my point. As the saying goes... crawl before ya jump...

I'm studying hard to be a PARAMEDIC... not a wannabe PA or MD.

Sorry, your program appears to maybe be weak. Your not taught how to perform a traditional assessment as a Paramedic? Yes, that would also include otoscope, ophthalmoscope, and yes knowing how to assess the eyes more than pupils are = and reactive. I guess you were not taught cranial nerve assessment, Rhine or weber test, or reflexes as well? Yes, they have a place in EMS and patient assessment and even not knowing that represents a problem. Actually before one should be able to "narrow" or perform a "specific" assessment, they should be able perform a real detailed patient assessment and then narrow it down as the situation and patient condition warrants not vice versa (alike the rest of the medical world).

Part of the problem with EMS is many want it to be treated special that ordinary medicine does not involve them; but again they want to be treated as an equal. Sorry you can't have your cake and eat it too. So let's quit teaching half *** classes and teach real emergency medicine. No, that's not PA, physician or RN level but medicine is medicine. Even those at the National Registry will agree upon this......

So it takes an additional 5-6 hours.. to even a day.. so be it. So when a Paramedic assess for such things as cranial hemorrhage they can really assess instead of guessing.... Just because it is not within the poorly developed and under prepared curriculum does not mean it should not be taught... (12 leads are not even in the curriculum).

 

[SES4]

Sorry, your program appears to maybe be weak. Your not taught how to perform a traditional assessment as a Paramedic? Yes, that would also include otoscope, ophthalmoscope, and yes knowing how to assess the eyes more than pupils are = and reactive. I guess you were not taught cranial nerve assessment, Rhine or weber test, or reflexes as well? Yes, they have a place in EMS and patient assessment and even not knowing that represents a problem. Actually before one should be able to "narrow" or perform a "specific" assessment, they should be able perform a real detailed patient assessment and then narrow it down as the situation and patient condition warrants not vice versa (alike the rest of the medical world).

Part of the problem with EMS is many want it to be treated special that ordinary medicine does not involve them; but again they want to be treated as an equal. Sorry you can't have your cake and eat it too. So let's quit teaching half *** classes and teach real emergency medicine. No, that's not PA, physician or RN level but medicine is medicine. Even those at the National Registry will agree upon this......

So it takes an additional 5-6 hours.. to even a day.. so be it. So when a Paramedic assess for such things as cranial hemorrhage they can really assess instead of guessing.... Just because it is not within the poorly developed and under prepared curriculum does not mean it should not be taught... (12 leads are not even in the curriculum).

Very valid. Is there another program, better perhaps that you can enroll in?

 

[ResTech]

Sorry, your program appears to maybe be weak

I don't think so... the instructors are decent and bring many decades of experience to the classroom and I feel I am excelling in both didactic and clinicals. And the A&P I and II is nice. A majority of programs require no A&P or only A&P I.

Your not taught how to perform a traditional assessment as a Paramedic? Yes, that would also include otoscope, ophthalmoscope...... I guess you were not taught cranial nerve assessment, Rhine or weber test, or reflexes as well?

Yes.. we are taught how to do "traditional assessments". Traditional assessments for Paramedics do not include use of the devices you mention. How is using either of those devices going to affect your care in the field? It's not. 99% of the ALS providers on the forum I bet have never been taught to use an otoscope or ophthalmoscope nor do any ambulances carry this equipment. So its not really "traditional" and is not a reflection of program quality if they do not teach this.

I have never seen ne one perform the Rhine or Weber test or do a complete cranial nerve assessment in the field over the past decade and a half. It's one of those things that may sound impressive to be able to do and brag about as a program coordinator having taught it to your students, but really... does it make a difference in the field with implementing appropriate and indicated treatment modalities? It's prob one of those nice to know and not really critical to know.

Medicine is medicine I do agree. But the pre-hospital environment deserves certain tailoring the same as other areas of specialty. I'm not so sure its fair to lump EMS with "hospital care". I recently read a journal article that talked about a few medical schools that are starting to have an EMS specialty for physicians... just like cardiologist, pulmonologist, etc. I think this helps vocalize the uniqueness of EMS and pre-hospital care.

Many misconstrue me as being anti-progression and anti-education within EMS and really I am not and am the complete opposite. I would consider myself more of a realist who believes in bringing the patient the highest level of care as efficiently as possible but at the same time realizing the limitations of care in the field and accepting the field as simply a battleground.... a time for stabilization and first-line modalities. I think it is definitely possible to "do too much" in the field and over think a patient.

Once the patient is delivered to the hospital, the staff than has the time and better conditions to be definitive and provide the full 360. Providing the full 360 was never the intention nor the goal of EMS.

 

[daedalus]

Traditional assessments for Paramedics do not include use of the devices you mention

That is incorrect, as Rid and Medic417 will tell you. Also, I was taught to use both.

complete cranial nerve assessment in the field over the past decade and a half

That is pretty sad. Most medics in my area are familiar with the "one minute" cranial nerve exam we have and I have seen it done in my very just two years in EMS.

Many misconstrue me as being anti-progression and anti-education within EMS

I think you think you are progressive, but you have some sort of prejudice about what you perceive as the limits of field medicine.

 

[ResTech]

So you guys carry ottoscopes on the Paramedic units were your at? What circumstances do you use them? What are you looking for? If you find something, what do your protocols state to do about it? Would your patient care be any different if you did not have the ability to examine the insides of the ears?

Perhaps some schools do teach these, but around here (as in 3 state region around here) they don't... and the teaching of their use would be considered new which does not qualify for "traditional Paramedic assessment".