EMTs and employment

daedalus

daedalus

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There have been numerous threads recently about EMTs looking for employment in California, and elsewhere in the United States. Even more threads about how to pass the NREMT, where to get an ambulance drivers certificate, and questions about scope of practice. There has even been a discussion where the OP was told that there is a 200 person long waiting list to get hired by AMR in one of the California counties where they provide 911 services.

I think it is a good time to point out that, there are very few EMT jobs in California and going to an EMT class will most likely not end in you working on a 911 ambulance. If there ever was a classic example of market saturation, here it is. You see tech schools putting out ads "become a life saver and have a whole new respected medical career in 6 weeks!"

The truth is entirely different. Until EMTs more than just a dime in a dozen because tech schools that mass produce them, there will never be jobs for all the graduates. And, until the education of an EMT requires actual medical education, we will never be anything more than something less than a CNA who can drive an ambulance.
 
Yeah you are right. To be honest I think they need to include chemistry I and II in the paramedic curriculum. So everyone will have a deeper understanding of during interactions and body chemistry.
 
daedalus said:
There have been numerous threads recently about EMTs looking for employment in California, and elsewhere in the United States. Even more threads about how to pass the NREMT, where to get an ambulance drivers certificate, and questions about scope of practice. There has even been a discussion where the OP was told that there is a 200 person long waiting list to get hired by AMR in one of the California counties where they provide 911 services.

I think it is a good time to point out that, there are very few EMT jobs in California and going to an EMT class will most likely not end in you working on a 911 ambulance. If there ever was a classic example of market saturation, here it is. You see tech schools putting out ads "become a life saver and have a whole new respected medical career in 6 weeks!"

The truth is entirely different. Until EMTs more than just a dime in a dozen because tech schools that mass produce them, there will never be jobs for all the graduates. And, until the education of an EMT requires actual medical education, we will never be anything more than something less than a CNA who can drive an ambulance.
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I agree 100%... except CNAs change diapers :wacko:
 
...and the good EMT-Bs will help get their patient cleaned up if needed.
 
I agree as well that EMT's are mass produced. I'm still gonna push for a 911 job, I think a little bit of drive can set those apart from the other dime a dozen healthcare providers.
 
emt1972 said:
I agree 100%... except CNAs change diapers :wacko:
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Which is what makes the EMT not even qualified for the BLS IFT trucks. A CNA with a CPR card would be much more appropriate since they do have the knowledge and training to deal with taking vital signs and provide some patient care needs for the transport. Very, very few of these patients need basic first aid. The U.S. EMT-Basic first aid training is also too little to be really effective on 911 calls either.
 
The intent of this thread is not even to be a negative nancy, and the career potential in EMS is so cool and to help someone on their time of need is what drove us all here in the first place (most of us, hopefully). We can achieve this but not how we are doing it now.
 
daedalus said:
to help someone on their time of need is what drove us all here in the first place (most of us, hopefully). We can achieve this but not how we are doing it now.
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daedalus said:
"become a life saver and have a whole new respected medical career in 6 weeks!"
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What drove them to being an EMT is the unrealistic expectations. They think they will be something extra special with very little time invested. That is the problem thoughout EMS. There has been so much "cool" put into the few skills done that they miss any of the really cool possibilites for the future. Once the concept that is is a medical profession involved with patient care, the numbers could even out. Other medical professions often stick a patient into their ads to remind potential students about that part. EMS ads make the ambulance or the uniform the star or center of attention.

Rid occasionally brought up the idea of a Paramedic Practitioner who is a true physician extender. However, some just started talking about what cool skills they could get with that title and forgot completely the education that should be required to go with it.
 
What pretty much made me realize the problem is when someone (I think vent) noted that barbers and cosmetology students spend atleast 1000 more hours then EMT-B's do in training and that's just doing hair.
Can you believe that? Expected to 'save a life' with 120 hours of education. Baffeling.

ETA: Not only that but I'm shocked at how many students find it excrutiatingly difficult to pass the NREMT or have to take it multiple times but are so convinced they would make excellent providers, I'm not so easily convinced. Standards need to be raised.
 
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Angel said:
ETA: Not only that but I'm shocked at how many students find it excrutiatingly difficult to pass the NREMT or have to take it multiple times but are so convinced they would make excellent providers, I'm not so easily convinced. Standards need to be raised.
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Not just passing the NREMT, but the training leading up to it. There are a few in my class that seem to believe that they should be certified simply because they paid tuition. The time between the beginning of the first semester and practicals is just a technicality to them.

One in particular argues with the teacher after every exam. Naturally, it's her fault that he's failed even when the class averages fall almost perfectly on a bell curve.

Sorry for the small rant from a student, but it's something I've noticed in my class and others. I hope I don't seem to harsh when I say that I'm happy I won't see some of my classmates next semester.
 
So am I to asume that haveing my CNA already is a good thing going into my emt basic class?
 
Let's look at some of the reasons some do take the EMT class and many of them are to get on with the FD.

A couple years ago Oakland, CA FD dropped the EMT as a requirement to pick up an application. They made national headlines when over 10,000 people showed up for an application. How many of those had an interest in being an EMT as well as a FF?

For some, it is a quick entry into some type of a medical profession if they don't want to go to college. It gives some bragging rights to a few skills and a neat job without a lot of effort put forth. It also allows someone who is just 17 or 18 years of age (16 in some states) to be an EMT. No other health care profession allows someone still in high school or just graduated high school to hold a license/certification and perform invasive skills. Phlebotomy might be the exception with 18 as entry but that is now about 150 hours of training with many patient contacts to do just one "skill". So who used to be OJT is now more than the EMT.
 
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EMT-B needs to be a mandatory associate degree. Paramedic needs to be a mandatory bachelor degree. Then we'll see some changes for the better in EMS as a whole.
 
I do agree that the Traning Hours for an EMT are sub-par compared to other professions, i really wish there was more time for Ride-alongs and Clincal observations, as i learned alot of things from those experinces.

as for the job situation, honestly EMS isnt the only one thats hurting right now, everyone is, all job markets are gone to crap. and hopefully itll be fixed soon.
i do agree that there are EMT mill's that churn out emts every month, which can flood the market and make it hard for everyone to get a job, but alas, i wish there was more of a way to weed everyone out in the field
 
rhan101277 said:
Yeah you are right. To be honest I think they need to include chemistry I and II in the paramedic curriculum. So everyone will have a deeper understanding of during interactions and body chemistry.
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Okay. Lets add needed classes.

English I & II. writing skills suck.

Math I & II

A&P I & II we are doing a medical job and should know the body.

Pharmacology

Psych, Abnormal Psych and Developmental Psych. Thats 3 psych classes. We do pick up both 911 and IFT calls with many patients who have psych issues. And we deal with non psych patients in abnormal situations.

Criminal Procedures/Investigations. We deal with alot crime scenes. We should be knowledable on how to work with cops and our roles.

Fire Ops. We work with FDs or as FFs. We should have some knowledge.

We need a whole lot more rotations. 5-10 hour ER rotations at the EMS triage desk, 2-10 hour shifts in a surgical unit. 2-10 hour shifts in a pediatric ward. 5 live births, 2 rotations in the ER where we interview patients. 2-10 hours shifts in an ICU. 5 shifts in an ALS units, 10 in a BLS unit and 5 shifts in a IFT bus.
 
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CAOX3 said:
Every discussion here eventually winds up down this road.
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only if we are dispatched there. No buffing educational threads. :sad:
 
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