EMT-I Students

[Lifeguards For Life]

Vent- why is it always such a pedantic condescending tone from you? It isn't like they just say here's a tube shove it in there.

My EMT-I book has a 66 page chapter for airway management. I realize there are probably entire BOOKS on airway management, but do you expect that every single person who is working on their intermediate is not going to continue on to get their paramedic? You already have your way... intermediate is going away and all the intermediates will be forced to up or downgrade. Why do you have to interrupt every stream of thought with your preference that we get no experience at all during our course of education?


can you just write out a rant for us to sticky at the top of every forum, so that we can discuss without being chastised for being interested and even taking a class to learn in the first place?

Typically I enjoy your informative posts, but tell me what does your comment lend to this thread? Is it relevant to the original post?

hopefully her comment aids to defer more people from deciding to pursue a level of training that allows an emt to perform paramedic skills without paramedic training.

not that paramedic training is at the extent it should be...

I am not trying to glorify paramedicine by any means, but this really should be an "all or nothing" type of deal.

 

[VentMedic]

Vent- why is it always such a pedantic condescending tone from you? It isn't like they just say here's a tube shove it in there.

Do you not want to see EMS advance?

You got your RN. Do you believe EMS should now remain behind you?

Do you want the OP to be left behind when the changes take place?

Why not start preparing for the future, which will happen in just a couple of years, today?

Too many do want EMS to stay the same because they don't want to do the additional education or they are afraid of change that might bring more responsibility and accountability.

hopefully her comment aids to defer more people from deciding to pursue a level of training that allows an emt to perform paramedic skills without paramedic training.

You are right on the mark.

The EMT-I is essentially an EMT-B with a few additional "Paramedic" skills but very little education to back them up.

 

[iamjeff171]

at my school you can get your intermediate, but there isnt really an intermediate program per say. it is a paramedic program, and you can test for your EMT-I after your second semester if you choose. I took and passed I85 for the experience, and... why not.

I dont feel that EMT-I is completely useless tho... I feel that the extra knowledge obtained from EMT-I greatly improved my assesment skills, and understanding of the disease process. while we still didnt have the whole picture, i felt it was a vast improvement over basic. but im not sure how my program compares to other intermediate programs since my school requires prereqs like A&P and pharmocology.

With that said...in my area, the EMT-I doesnt really allow you to do a whole lot extra other than start IV's and push a few more meds (911 runs dual paramedic trucks pretty much everywhere), oh, and a little extra cash per hour. i personally dont see how you could be satisfied with just an EMT-I if you are dedicated to a career in EMS/healthcare. but i dont feel it is right to chastize someone for improving their education, whether or not you feel they have set their goals high enough.

i think vent comes off as condescending because she always answers your question with a question... but however you may feel about her, you cant hate someone for wanting to improve their trade/industry

 

[VentMedic]

This is the one and probably only profession that takes it as an insult when you suggest to someone that they should continue their education to learn more. You might as well as slap their mother rather than tell an EMT-B to go on to be a Paramedic. "Why? Aren't EMT-Bs important too?" "You just say that because you hate EMT-Bs." "You think everyone should be a Paragod."

You tell a CNA that they should go on to be an RN and they take it as a compliment that someone recognized they might do well advancing themselves. Tell just about anyone from a store clerk to the phlebotomist they should go back to college and they will probably take that as a sign of encouragement to move on from what might be otherwise a deadend job. Tell most nursing or whatever health care students that an advanced degree will be of importance and they will give it some thought or do some research to see what education opportunities are available. You tell an LVN that opportunities are limited for them and most will consider advancing their education or should at least take note of the warning for their future. But, tell an EMT-B that they should go on to be a Paramedic so that they will have the knowledge and skills to better care for their patients as well as more employment opportunities is just an insult to the EMT-B or I according to some.

 

[medichopeful]

Oh, and another thing...NOBODY gives a flying crap what is done down under.

Why would that be, exactly? Wouldn't it be good to learn from a place that's a bit more advanced in the field than we are?

 

[iamjeff171]

It will be a good day when this level finally disappears in 2014. It is just a display of what EMS in the U.S. has become with emphasis on a few skills without the knowledge.
.

so if you told a CNA, LVN, RN or anyone else that their level of certification was inferior/obsolete and should be abollished, would they not also be a bit peeved?

telling someone that their cert is useless is a little different than telling them they should seek to advance their skills...IMHO

-Jeff

 

[VentMedic]

so if you told a CNA, LVN, RN or anyone else that their level of certification was inferior/obsolete and should be abollished, would they not also be a bit peeved?

This has already been done many times in all the other professions. The CNA has been asked to advance to PCT level (about 500 - 700 hours) in some places. The LVN hasn't been used in acute care situations in some states for over 20 years. There is even a recent article about that in the news section on this forum. The RN may need a BSN to apply for some jobs due to the competitiveness. If you want to work on some Flight or Specialty Teams, both inside and outside of the hospital, a BSN is not asking too much. The CRTT has gone away in the RT world as have the OJTs or whatever other lesser trained levels there were at one time. One who still has not upgraded probably will not be doing much more than cleaning equipment and not patient care in the near future. Phlebotomists were once OJT certified and are now being asked to get their national cert to keep their jobs. And the list goes on and on for PT, OT, SLP, Radiology and whatever other profession in health care. You can be as peeved as you want in the unemployment line if you do not take notice of the changes heading toward you in your profession. Other professions don't take all the excuses as EMS does and do not have 50+ certs to accommodate all of the excuses.

telling someone that their cert is useless is a little different than telling them they should seek to advance their skills...IMHO

-Jeff

Do you want to point out where I used the work useless? Stating it is an unnecessary step and soon to be outdated one is very different.

The new NREMT levels are coming out whether some like it or not.

 

[iamjeff171]

Do you want to point out where I used the work useless? Stating it is an unnecessary step and soon to be outdated one is very different.

The new NREMT levels are coming out whether some like it or not.

i suppose you are right, those are two different statements. however the wording used earlier also not quite as soft.i suppose you didnt use the word useless, though i think that is how it comes across to many. can you point to where you used the words unnecessary?

You dont have to convince me that more education is better. i've got one more semester and an internship and ill be done with my paramedic at an accredited university. i could have finished my P in half the time and for half the cost at a school right down the road from my current one. Education is important to me...and if you want a 911 job in my area, you've gotta have a red patch...i suppose i forget that in many areas this is not the norm.

-Jeff

 

[8jimi8]

so if you told a CNA, LVN, RN or anyone else that their level of certification was inferior/obsolete and should be abollished, would they not also be a bit peeved?

telling someone that their cert is useless is a little different than telling them they should seek to advance their skills...IMHO

-Jeff

Vent my primary problem here is that we are in the lounge. It isn't only what you say, but how you say it. Your name is quite apt because it seems thy you vent your frustrations in every post. If you notice, I have never not encouraged someone to continue educating themselves.

I understand that my last posting to you was not at all cordial. I opened this thread thinking well I don't know what I was thinking, but I was quite dismayed to see that the second post was denegrating me for taking an additional class. You see, I could have just challenged the exam without taking any time to learn about ems ops, medicine from an emergency perspective... But I pride myself in and value education. I don't want to be some dangerous person with a patch and a license. And I'm insulted that I get a blanket lecture from someone when it is likely that I have an equivalent education. I realize, vent, that you are not here to coddle anyone; however I dont understand why you can't be informative without being condescending

 

[VentMedic]

Vent my primary problem here is that we are in the lounge. It isn't only what you say, but how you say it. Your name is quite apt because it seems thy you vent your frustrations in every post. If you notice, I have never not encouraged someone to continue educating themselves.

I understand that my last posting to you was not at all cordial. I opened this thread thinking well I don't know what I was thinking, but I was quite dismayed to see that the second post was denegrating me for taking an additional class. You see, I could have just challenged the exam without taking any time to learn about ems ops, medicine from an emergency perspective... But I pride myself in and value education. I don't want to be some dangerous person with a patch and a license. And I'm insulted that I get a blanket lecture from someone when it is likely that I have an equivalent education. I realize, vent, that you are not here to coddle anyone; however I dont understand why you can't be informative without being condescending

Did you think I was criticizing you for taking the RN program?

I am merely stating that the OP should prepare for the future. Again, tell someone to advance their education beyond the bare minimun and it is considered an insult to some. I directed my initial comments to the OP about the EMT-I and not to your RN or whatever other cert. Why are you taking such offense? You should be proud that you did complete the degree to get your RN license. It is also great that your are picking up extra certs but are you going to use them in EMS as a career?

What about this statement made by you?

You already have your way... intermediate is going away and all the intermediates will be forced to up or downgrade.

If you are blaming me for the Intermediate going away I should probably thank you for giving me the credit for that. However, the Paramedic with a minimum of a two year degree would be the entry for EMS if it was left entirely up to me.

 

[8jimi8]

The staement was made to illustrate that you don't have to keep perserverating the point. EMT-Is are soon to be a thing of the past. Why do you have to shove that down everyones throat in EVERY post. This thread is in the lounge... This was a casual post to meet other EMT-Is. It is a well known perspective that EMS is growing as a profession. I for one am not opposed to this. I AM an EMT-I student, who were you directing your statements at?

The whole point being, if one person tells you something, you can probably ignore it. Three people or more.... They might have a point. I am one person asking you not to be so condescending. Is that too much?

 

[VentMedic]

I AM an EMT-I student, who were you directing your statements at?

phideux the OP. My post was second in this thread right after his.

The whole point being, if one person tells you something, you can probably ignore it. Three people or more.... They might have a point. I am one person asking you not to be so condescending. Is that too much?

I made one post about the changes coming. A couple of other members asked questions about the changes.

Why do you feel it is necessary to ignore important changes or to bash the person who mentions them? You are going to great lengths to continue making me the villain for the upcoming changes. Take your complaints to the NREMT if you want to keep the EMT-I level so EMS can continue down the same path it has for over 40 years.

How can you be an EMT-I student and not want to know about the changes coming?

 

[8jimi8]

phideux the OP. My post was second in this thread right after his.



I made one post about the changes coming. A couple of other members asked questions about the changes.

Why do you feel it is necessary to ignore important changes or to bash the person who mentions them? You are going to great lengths to continue making me the villain for the upcoming changes. Take your complaints to the NREMT if you want to keep the EMT-I level so EMS can continue down the same path it has for over 40 years.

How can you be an EMT-I student and not want to know about the changes coming?

you seem to only be selectively reading my posts. I am in AGREEMENT with the upcoming changes. The only one who is making you a villian are your condescending posts. Maybe I chose the wrong moment to finally be fed up with your holier than thou attitude. It may not be appropriate considering you really didn't go off like you usually do, but I think my perspective is supported by the fact that you HAVE been banned before. I only keep asking you WHY you are so condescending and IF you could stop. And you keep tying to play the innocent victim who hasn't done or said anything to deserve my accusations. If you could agree to speak to us like peers, there would be no room for criticism.

 

[8jimi8]

you are right 417, i shouldn't dish it out, because i am obviously tired of taking it.

 

[medic417]

annnnnd no snappy response. Maybe i hit a nerve

You may want to be less condescending of a true advocate of the advancement of EMS. Vent does come across a little abrupt at times but if you will she can teach you much.

 

[8jimi8]

That is where i tried to go with this in the first place. I HAVE learned a great deal from Ventmedic. I have just grown weary of the the constant derision. I'm sorry that I'm not done with my education, it's tiring to hear that i need to keep getting my education, when i know that and i'm doing so.

 

[phideux]

What did I start here????:wacko::wacko:
I'm in the EMT-I course now, just in the natural progression of the way the program works here. I'm going to school at an accredited school here all the way to my degree in Emergency Medical Technology. At that point I can take the NREMT-P tests. This semester just happens to be the spot where the EMT-I is taught along the way to EMT-P. At the end of this semester we can take the NR exam for EMT-I, but it is not required to continue on with the rest of the program. I'm volunteering right now for 2 different outfits. And at the end of this semester will take the NR EMT-I tests. That will give me more skills I can use on the street while I finish my schooling. Luckily I'm in a financial position where I concentrate on school and volunteer work. After I get through this semester, only 3 more to go.
Can't we all just get along??????B)B)B)

 

[JCampbell]

Why would that be, exactly? Wouldn't it be good to learn from a place that's a bit more advanced in the field than we are?

Because constant posts about how much more advanced things are somewhere else don't TEACH anything, therefore nothing is LEARNED.

 

[Ocean711]

It will be a good day when this level finally disappears in 2014. It is just a display of what EMS in the U.S. has become with emphasis on a few skills without the knowledge.

You need to move on to Paramedic quickly so you will at least know why you are doing the skills being taught at this level.

That is absolutely amazing. You could not go ONE post without badmouthing someone. As a matter of fact, I am an EMT-I student planning on getting my EMT-P and eventually RN. My program required college level A&P and Med. Terminology to get into it. I have literally been studying twenty hours a day just to pass this class. I have a degree and got A's in my A&P courses and I still have to work hard at this. I agree with you that EMS needs to be streamlined, but your negativity really doesn't help anyone. We are taught why we are doing what we are doing, we are learning the pathophysiology behind every condition for every unit we are taught. I understand that some programs may not go into why we do thing, but mine does. My point is do not prejudge every school and make blanket statements about programs you are obviously not familiar with. I am studying for one of the hardest classes I have taken and I do not take it lightly. I am not going to argue with you about this, I only want to express my opinion. We are all on the same team, working for the same goal: providing the best patient care possible.

 

[8jimi8]

That is the thing that gets my goat... i'll repeat again... Its not like they hand you a laryngoscope and and a tube and say... Go to town buddy, i know you don't know WHY you are doing this, but here you jam this in here and jam that in there and blammo! You did it!

There is careful consideration of indications, contraindications, techniques. Anatomy, phsyiology of respiration, pharmacology. Atmospheric pressures, partial pressures, gas laws... None of this is taken lightly in my program. So why is it consistently thrown in my face that I'm learning a "skill" without knowing WHY i'm doing it. That opinion is just plain IGNORANT and flat out WRONG. I don't care how many patches and licenses you hold. Unless you are perfect and omnipotent, don't pass judgement, until you hear me say something wrong. THEN correct me. No one in this thread has bemoaned the advancement of the EMS. No one here has whined that ETI is being taken away from intermediates. I wonder if you'll be the one crying when they eventually take ETI away from EVERYONE in EMS. I won't because it isn't about skills for me, its about positive patient outcomes. And we can't learn from you if we resent your very presence. Try to think about that.