EMT Basic Salaries

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Clipper1

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While Nurses have a state-issued license and a fairly wide scope of practice, the scope of practice that an individual RN has can vary from facility to facility and by specific position within each facility.

Furthermore, RN's are typically limited to BLS only when not working, should they choose to provide care in the field. While the same goes for Paramedics, that's not always the case. Some California EMS systems explicitly allow accredited Paramedics (that are affiliated with a provider) to provide their full ALS scope of practice while off-duty.

So the Nursing scope of practice does vary considerably...
The scope of practice for nursing does not vary as much from state to state. The job description does. A flight or L&D nurse can intubate but a med-surg nurse probably has not need to so it is not in his or her job description. For EMS it seems every state varies in some way including what each provider is called since not all use all of the new NREMT titles. Texas sets its scope of practice as it goes depending on the medical director. California seems to be very limited for scope of practice while in Washington it is broad for Paramedics and even EMTs.

An RN also has the ability to move across the street to another facility to have more autonomy or participate in advanced patient care with additional skills due to an extensive scope of practice by the state. Often EMTs or Paramedics are very limited to their state's scope of practice unless there is special permission obtained through the state by a request of their medical director. The titles EMT and Paramedic do not always follow them into jobs in many health care facilities and is often limited to prehospital as their state certification statutes define. If the titles do follow, they might be limited to only what they can do by their state scope of practice which would then prevent an EMT from performing invasive procedures such as venipuncture of any type and even obtaining a finger stick for. If they left the EMT title outside and went with ER Tech, they might be trained to the full scope of a PCT.

As an off duty Paramedic do you carry intubation equipment, IV equipment, fluids and narcotics routinely on your person? Are the narcotics in a lock box in your car? Is this only in the area covered by your ambulance service or can you take all of this equipment anywhere in the state? If you were to assist your co-workers while you are off duty, great but then are you paid for your time since you would be working under your medical director and do you fill out the PCR? Would you fall under the Good Sam as most healthcare workers do performing "BLS" or would this be listed as volunteer even if you are a paid service? Is this a written duty to act when off duty by your state or county? I guess I should also ask if you are a volunteer Paramedic although the topic here is about salaries. While I know there are volunteer Paramedics I don't know if I would want to advertise it especially if the spouse and kids use the car which might have ALS equipment in it or known to have such stuff in the car.
 

Akulahawk

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As an off duty Paramedic do you carry intubation equipment, IV equipment, fluids and narcotics routinely on your person? Are the narcotics in a lock box in your car? Is this only in the area covered by your ambulance service or can you take all of this equipment anywhere in the state? If you were to assist your co-workers while you are off duty, great but then are you paid for your time since you would be working under your medical director and do you fill out the PCR? Would you fall under the Good Sam as most healthcare workers do performing "BLS" or would this be listed as volunteer even if you are a paid service? Is this a written duty to act when off duty by your state or county? I guess I should also ask if you are a volunteer Paramedic although the topic here is about salaries. While I know there are volunteer Paramedics I don't know if I would want to advertise it especially if the spouse and kids use the car which might have ALS equipment in it or known to have such stuff in the car.
A properly affiliated and accredited Paramedic can have (with proper authorization) almost all the equipment and meds that an on-duty medic has. The only restriction for meds is they're not allowed to have any of the "narcs" (opiates and benzos). The reality is that most of those medics don't have their own authorized equipment/meds. However, they can, and are, able to use that stuff should it show up on scene, say with an on-duty BLS crew that brings an ALS equipped Engine. The off-duty Paramedic doesn't have to do a PCR as long as their actions are recorded by/for the on-duty crew. Since the off-duty medic would have volunteered to provide care on their own and they don't expect to be paid for it, Good Sam does apply.

The policy that expressly authorizes full-scope off-duty ALS was written for certain areas of the County where on-duty ALS is very lacking, takes a while to get there, so there may be Paramedics that are authorized to have that stuff made available for them to use, or probably a LOT more commonly, where a BLS fire crew shows up with a rig that's ALS equipped, and a Paramedic happens to be there. Sacramento is mostly an urban area, but there are huge portions of the County that can only get ALS care delivered in that way. The policy was written to fill a need (way back when) and the need still exists. Another part of that policy allows for an on-duty Paramedic to request the assistance of a known off-duty Paramedic and allows that off-duty medic to exercise full scope.

And no, I'm not a volly Paramedic... however if the opportunity presented itself, I'd become one just to regain my local accreditation.
 

Aidey

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OK guys, lets get this back to the topic of EMT salaries rather than comparing what various providers can do.
 

Akulahawk

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As to EMT salary/hourly wage, my last EMT wage was just $8.25/hr... and I doubt the local private provider wage in that area is much better than that, and that was about a dozen years ago. If the base wage has improved, it hasn't by much.
 

hogwiley

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As a "transporter" you make the same money I stated out as a patient care tech, which seems crazy to me. But then again our pay was diluted by RN students who would work for peanuts so they could gain experience and get their foot in the door at a hospital.

EMTs make little money I suspect in part for the same reason, because many of them just want experience while they go to Paramedic school, and will acccept the crappy pay in return for experience. The difference being that while 13 an hour is the absolute low end in pay for a tech, for EMTs the only limit to how low it can go is probably minimum wage.

Someone mentioned CNAs and implied it was unfair they made the same or more than EMTs. This person obviously never spent a day as a CNA in a nursing home. That is a job I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. No matter how easy the job looks when your bringing grandma back from dialysis, believe me, the job is about ten times worse than working as an EMT. When I worked in a nursing home we had a higher turnover rate than Mcdonalds despite making 12.50 an hour(a fortune in CNA pay).
 
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Mariemt

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Someone mentioned CNAs and implied it was unfair they made the same or more than EMTs. This person obviously never spent a day as a CNA in a nursing home. That is a job I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. No matter how easy the job looks when your bringing grandma back from dialysis, believe me, the job is about ten times worse than working as an EMT. When I worked in a nursing home we had a higher turnover rate than Mcdonalds despite making 12.50 an hour(a fortune in CNA pay).

Says who? Don't assume. For one, it was stated that EMTs require twice as much formal training
Second, don't assume that the one saying an EMT requires more training has never been a can.

Ty
 

Mariemt

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The minimum for EMTs in the US for the majority of states is still about 110 hours so 75 is more than half. Also, many CNA programs are taught at community colleges so they also get college credit and some are in the continuing learning section which is where some EMT classes also are. College is not a requirement for either. Some CNA classes may also have 60 - 100 hours of hands on experience in clinicals. Our local cc program would like to see their graduates do total care to 10 patients for an 8 hour shift. The first day might be spent taking vitals on over 100 long term patients.

http://bellevuecollege.edu/health/cne/nac.asp

http://www.scc.losrios.edu/Academic...HOPE/Programs/Certified_Nursing_Assistant.htm

63 hours of classroom instruction and 135 hours of supervised, hands-on clinical instruction

http://www.frontrange.edu/Academics/Fields-of-Study/Certificates/Nurse-Aide/

https://aztransmac2.asu.edu/cgi-bin/WebObjects/acres.woa/wa/freeForm?id=24462

So you see CNAs can also do more than the "minimum".

Does where you take the course improve your chances of being employed or paid more for an entry level tech class (CNA or EMT) with only a few hours required for state certification? Probably not.
it must be either a program or a state thing.

Here cnas get 75 hours plus hands on.
I got over 200 hours and 6 college credits plus 52 hours clinical. However we don't go by hours, it is patient contacts. It is how long it took me to meet the required amount
 

Clipper1

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QUOTE=Mariemt;489479]Says who? Don't assume. For one, it was stated that EMTs require twice as much formal training
Second, don't assume that the one saying an EMT requires more training has never been a can.

Ty[/QUOTE]

I think it is safe to assume that the person who made the statement you replied to has some personal experience.

it must be either a program or a state thing.

Here cnas get 75 hours plus hands on.
I got over 200 hours and 6 college credits plus 52 hours clinical. However we don't go by hours, it is patient contacts. It is how long it took me to meet the required amount

I clearly stated the Federal act for CNAs with a MINIMUM of 75 hours required. If you notice, all the links I posted are from various states with many different CNA courses which meet both Federal and State requirements.

When we teach CNA candidates we do not say 40 contacts and you are finished. We define care standards and the ability to do the required care for x amount of patients (usually 10) by yourself by graduation day. If you go just by the number of contacts or tasks, some do the minimum and sit down. Some EMT and Paramedic students have also been known to do that. They might get their required BPs or IV sticks in and are considered finished with their ER rotation.

Now for the MacDonald's comparison. if you are responsible for $1000s of dollars, must be nice to more people in one hour than most EMTs will talk to in a month and face the possibility of being robbed at gunpoint or assaulted and sometimes cussed out in public by an irate EMT who didn't get his 10% discount on a $1 meal. No amount of money is worth the trouble in my opinion.

The thing is the class, EMT or CNA, should be honest in telling someone what happens in the real world. I see ads for EMT classes all the time with blaring sirens and promises of big FD jobs. I also see CNA classes advertised with all glamorous students in neatly pressed uniforms looking like they don't have a care in the world. In reality, both are entry level jobs but EMTs jobs are harder to come by because of the ease of entry and CNA jobs are in big demand because it is hard work. At least those at McDonalds know why they are there either for short term or long term goals. There is no pretense about the job and the McDonalds phenomenon on wage control is well known. So no surprises. $12.50 might seem like a lot of money but if you are stuck working there for 10 years for whatever reason and know you will not make more than that unless the minimum wage increases, it is not that great. But, most people who work there know this and either accept it for whatever reasons like a handicap or move on.
 

hogwiley

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Says who? Don't assume. For one, it was stated that EMTs require twice as much formal training
Second, don't assume that the one saying an EMT requires more training has never been a can.

Ty

The "formal" training difference between EMTs and CNA is almost irrelevant, because CNA is a job that pretty much has to be learned on the job, it cant really be taught in a classroom or lab, so not a lot of time is wasted on that. The class is basically a formality that allows you to take the skills exam and get hired somewhere, which is where you learn how to be a CNA.

Anyone can learn the individual skills on mannequins or students. The trick is putting it all together on multiple dementia patients at once, sometimes up to 20 confused combative patients for an entire shift. If you have coworkers calling in sick one CNA might be taking care of 30 people, most of whom are total care, including people who need to be repositioned and cleaned every 2 hours or they get decubs.

It doesn't matter how long the school is, you could make it twice as long as EMT school and it wouldn't make any difference. You see RN students who have more schooling than a Paramedic fall flat on their face as a CNA or quit one week into the job.

My hardest shifts as an EMT are a cakewalk by comparison.
 
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Clipper1

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You see RN students who have more schooling than a Paramedic fall flat on their face as a CNA or quit one week into the job.

The best is watching a Paramedic with a fresh RN patch from Excelsior on med-surg with no CNA for the first time. Good times....unless you are Charge or a co-worker having to pick up the slack and manage your own patients.

Sometimes the easy way to a title without doing some time in clinicals or the hands on experience does not prepare you for reality and it does not matter what the salary is.
 
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JPINFV

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Why is it worthless? ACLS and PALS are both great to know EKG rhythms, how to respond to different types of EKG arrhythmia, how to lead a code and tell the nurse or doctor what to do and in what order,
So... how often have you had the physician turn to you and ask what to do next?
 

JPINFV

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I would be curious as to how may EMT-B or Paramedic's have ever told a nurse or doctor what to do during a code. I know in 15 years I've do it a total of 1 time and by the way it was an eye doctor that didn't even know how to do CPR.
Are we talking optometrist or ophthalmologist? One is a physician, the other isn't.
 

JPINFV

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Sometimes the easy way to a title without doing some time in clinicals or the hands on experience does not prepare you for reality and it does not matter what the salary is.

[cough]DNPs[/cough]
 

Aidey

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Ok guys, last warning. Keep it on the topic of salaries.
 

Mariemt

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The "formal" training difference between EMTs and CNA is almost irrelevant, because CNA is a job that pretty much has to be learned on the job, it cant really be taught in a classroom or lab, so not a lot of time is wasted on that. The class is basically a formality that allows you to take the skills exam and get hired somewhere, which is where you learn how to be a CNA.

Anyone can learn the individual skills on mannequins or students. The trick is putting it all together on multiple dementia patients at once, sometimes up to 20 confused combative patients for an entire shift. If you have coworkers calling in sick one CNA might be taking care of 30 people, most of whom are total care, including people who need to be repositioned and cleaned every 2 hours or they get decubs.

It doesn't matter how long the school is, you could make it twice as long as EMT school and it wouldn't make any difference. You see RN students who have more schooling than a Paramedic fall flat on their face as a CNA or quit one week into the job.

My hardest shifts as an EMT are a cakewalk by comparison.
believe me, I know what it takes to be a cna.
 

Niesje

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Around here EMTs and Paramedics get paid pretty well. The state average for TN is $19. But I've taken CNA course and currently work in a nursing home as a CNA while going to EMT school and EMT school is way longer, harder, and more expensive. My CNA class took 5 wks and required 21 clinical hours where we helped with meals and changed a couple diapers. It also cost $120. I only make $10/hr and that's the most I've ever made. Most places won't give you more than $8. And yeah, it's really hard.
 

mike1390

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hB826C2D8


Op might be a troll....
 

mike1390

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Did you not read his previous posts? Talking about how he has ACLS & PALS so he can "run" codes as a transporter and give doctors and RNs orders on how to run codes, or how about that it is "illegal" to work as a private paramedic in LA and OC... I feel like he's just fishing for drama.
 

Akulahawk

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Did you not read his previous posts? Talking about how he has ACLS & PALS so he can "run" codes as a transporter and give doctors and RNs orders on how to run codes, or how about that it is "illegal" to work as a private paramedic in LA and OC... I feel like he's just fishing for drama.
I can fish for that... just not while at work. ;)
 
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