medichopeful
Flight RN/Paramedic
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EMT-Basic IV
- Thread starter EMT11KDL
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medic417
The Truth Provider
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Are you serious? I hope I never have to ride in one of those helicoptersh34r:
Yes. Used to be we requested flight when we needed a skill not available for our patients. Now we actually do more than many flight crews so only reason to call flight is time/distance to appropriate level of care.
I could not imagine a Paramedic/EMT-B crew being allowed to do RSI even if the EMT could start an IV.
medic417
The Truth Provider
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We do that on the ground. Been that way for years.
You, by yourself, push the drugs and intubate?
Woooooooaaahhhhh, way too many assumptions.
Vent - I also still work as a lonely 'ol ground Paramedic, lol................I was referencing my example in that environment. We fly Medic / RN, wouldn't have it with anything less.
I have never seen an effective air service offer any level of critical care with a "P" and "B" combination, seems to be rather counter productive to me.
For the record, the State of Texas does not "allow" an EMT-B to initiate IV's, that is delegated to the individual medical director. I have yet to meet one who is willing to concede to that lack of appropriate responsibility and allow his/her entry level EMT's start them.
Linuss, I know you pointed it out already, but it seems that it may have been perceived as acceptable (which it is not, hence why we do not see it happening!).
Vent - I also still work as a lonely 'ol ground Paramedic, lol................I was referencing my example in that environment. We fly Medic / RN, wouldn't have it with anything less.
I have never seen an effective air service offer any level of critical care with a "P" and "B" combination, seems to be rather counter productive to me.
For the record, the State of Texas does not "allow" an EMT-B to initiate IV's, that is delegated to the individual medical director. I have yet to meet one who is willing to concede to that lack of appropriate responsibility and allow his/her entry level EMT's start them.
Linuss, I know you pointed it out already, but it seems that it may have been perceived as acceptable (which it is not, hence why we do not see it happening!).
medic417
The Truth Provider
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Yes sadly when I do not have a Paramedic or Intermediate Partner I do it all.
daedalus
Forum Deputy Chief
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This topic has already been discussed to death. Why do we need to list the states again? They already have been listed multiple times.
Close the thread I think.
irish_handgrenade
Forum Lieutenant
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as far as i know in texas a basic can only start an iv if there is a medic in the truck and if the basic is currently attending an advanced class. i work part time for 3 different services and i am a month away from finishing my medic classes, so they allow me to do anything up to my school level as long as i am riding with a medic. if i am with an I then i can do anything that the I can do. Also most of the medics or Is that I work with all trust me due to my good track record.
medic417
The Truth Provider
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No in Texas a basic may only do IV's if the local medical director puts it in the protocol. We do not have state wide protocols.
TransportJockey
Forum Chief
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NM it is a special skill that I was not aware is done anywhere in the state... I'll call up a friend in Cruces and see what he's saying about Basics doing IVs
Shishkabob
Forum Chief
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Double post
Last edited by a moderator:
Shishkabob
Forum Chief
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Wait... "we"?
You're in Texas? Darn.
Can I ask all medics and fellow medic students something?
How long did you actually spend learning about IV's in class? Not talking about 'just the skill', but about acid/base, complications, and stuff of that nature?
HotelCo
Forum Deputy Chief
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Several weeks. Perhaps a month and some change.
Shishkabob
Forum Chief
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So, by "month" you mean 4-5 days, correct?
HotelCo
Forum Deputy Chief
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In class, yes.
EDIT: sorry didn't see that. Acid/Base was a whole other topic that we learned at a later time.
Everything has been discussed to death here, should we just shut down the site?
No we are not allowed to start IVs.
Afflixion
Forum Captain
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The AMR guys out around that area do at least according to the EMS program director but then again this was a few years ago
Summit
Critical Crazy
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Hmmm.... my IV class was 36 hours of classroom plus clinicals. Short, but I already understood acid-base balance and buffering from various chemistry classes and A&P.
Some of the naysayers here talk about "skills so easy a monkey can do it." Well, really, that's about all that happens in CO. It's not like EMTs are really allowed to do much other than starting, monitoring, and d/cing peripheral lines. That's really why it exists... so that they can do IFTs on patients with existing IVs and so that they can be used as ER techs to start lines. Also, so that they can do finger BGL sticks.
What drugs can you actually give? D50 and NS. Yes, those are dangerous if you don't understand what you are doing, thus most agencies are pretty restrictive about how or when you can use them (for B-IVs D50 is usually online and NS often is too for more than TKO).
Some of the naysayers here talk about "skills so easy a monkey can do it." Well, really, that's about all that happens in CO. It's not like EMTs are really allowed to do much other than starting, monitoring, and d/cing peripheral lines. That's really why it exists... so that they can do IFTs on patients with existing IVs and so that they can be used as ER techs to start lines. Also, so that they can do finger BGL sticks.
What drugs can you actually give? D50 and NS. Yes, those are dangerous if you don't understand what you are doing, thus most agencies are pretty restrictive about how or when you can use them (for B-IVs D50 is usually online and NS often is too for more than TKO).
ResTech
Forum Asst. Chief
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Im kinda on the fence as to rather EMT-B's should be allowed to start IV's. It is a pretty easy skill once you get the hang of it but certainly there is much more to IV therapy then the venipuncture part of it.
We learned how to start an IV in class in one night. But the actual didactic and studying part that backs up the skill happened over the entire semester and the skill was honed in the ED and field over the entire semester as well.
I do see some advantages especially in systems where its common to have a Paramedic and EMT-B paired together. The EMT-B could start the line while the Medic does other treatment... and that may make things a little more efficient. But in that case, the Paramedic is there to oversee and ultimately monitor the amount of fluid infused. I don't think the Basic should be allowed to administer any meds through it though.
Its often said pre-hospital that an IV never saved anybody... especially in trauma. So other than for efficiency purposes in a PM/EMT crew scenerio, I'm not sure if allowing Basic's to start IV's really offers any better patient care.
Those of you as Basics that can start IV's, what do your protocols allow once IV access is obtained? Are you allowed to treat dehydration, heat related illnesses, trauma, etc? Ot just keep it at KVO?
We learned how to start an IV in class in one night. But the actual didactic and studying part that backs up the skill happened over the entire semester and the skill was honed in the ED and field over the entire semester as well.
I do see some advantages especially in systems where its common to have a Paramedic and EMT-B paired together. The EMT-B could start the line while the Medic does other treatment... and that may make things a little more efficient. But in that case, the Paramedic is there to oversee and ultimately monitor the amount of fluid infused. I don't think the Basic should be allowed to administer any meds through it though.
Its often said pre-hospital that an IV never saved anybody... especially in trauma. So other than for efficiency purposes in a PM/EMT crew scenerio, I'm not sure if allowing Basic's to start IV's really offers any better patient care.
Those of you as Basics that can start IV's, what do your protocols allow once IV access is obtained? Are you allowed to treat dehydration, heat related illnesses, trauma, etc? Ot just keep it at KVO?