EMS Question - Paramedic Immediately after Basic?

[Gastudent]

Hello all I read a lot on here that people go right to paramedic school after they get there EMT Basic. In Georgia that is unheard of. I do not know one paramedic that was not an intermediate before they were a paramedic. Even now there is no school around that I know that just lets you go to basic, all the programs are for AEMT. The only reason anyone test for basic is so they can get there AEMT. So if anyone knows why that may be, or if your state is like mine please let me know.

 

[STXmedic]

Hello all I read a lot on here that people go right to paramedic school after they get there EMT Basic. In Georgia that is unheard of. I do not know one paramedic that was not an intermediate before they were a paramedic. Even now there is no school around that I know that just lets you go to basic, all the programs are for AEMT. The only reason anyone test for basic is so they can get there AEMT. So if anyone knows why that may be, or if your state is like mine please let me know.

Crappy requirement that is designed to get students "invaluable experience" before becoming a medic. Plenty of areas are like that (I believe many areas of Cali for example). There are plenty if threads on here about that though, including very recently. Search for those; there are already enough arguments started on that subject

 

[hall1765]

Not a crappy requirement when you consider that I-85 was the entry level in GA. One could not be employed on a 911 unit as an EMT-B in most of the state.

 

[wanderingmedic]

Honestly that is what all EMS in the US should look like.

 

[RocketMedic]

Honestly that is what all EMS in the US should look like.

disagree

 

[chaz90]

I see this thread's argument beginning again. We were warned in the very first reply...

 

[Gastudent]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. If the people who replied wouldn't mind elaborating on why they think the requirements should be one way or the other I would really appreciate it. I am not trying to start an argument I would just really like to hear your opinions on the subject. Thanks in advance, and lets keep it nice^_^

 

[Akulahawk]

To the OP: It's quite simple. Georgia will do what Georgia will do. Other states will do things the way they want.

 

[joshrunkle35]

As a student finishing my last month in medic school, I can definitively say that I constantly ask current medics on different departments for help understanding stuff from my homework, and not only do they not know the answer, they rarely understand the question.

I went straight from basic to medic. I have not had the time to learn any bad habits, and I think everything in the books are important. The guys who did basic or advanced for a few years tune out what they don't think is actually important and have run the risk of flunking out of school so far. The upside is that on day one of medic school they could generally look at someone and approximate what that person had before taking vitals, etc. After clinicals, however, skills are all relatively about the same.

While these ideas from "institutional inertia" will still mean that you are less likely to get hired after medic without experience, they don't actually mean that you will be a better medic.While grades don't usually mean someone will be the best at treatment, they are a general guide for who has a greater amount of knowledge.

So far, the people with the best grades in my class are: A basic with 7 years volunteer service who is a complete hobbyist, a girl who is on her third try through medic, a guy on a paid department with 10 years experience as an advanced who cannot be promoted without medic and who's department will only continue paying as long as he maintains an "A" average, and a guy who doesn't want to work as a medic, but is interested in the knowledge as he travels a lot and came straight from basic.

The people with the worst grades in my class (including those who flunked out) all seem to be on a department somewhere with a few years of experience.

 

[mgr22]

I was an instructor in a NY paramedic program for 11 years. We were never able to show a correlation between prior certification and academic performance. As I recall, math and reading skills were much more important. We accepted EMTs with little or no EMS experience.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Since we seem to be citing anecdotal experience as hard and fast truth, let me share a few of my experiences.

I found that peope who proceed from entry-level to Paramedic with no field experience have difficulty in performing the essential basics of the job. That is, lifting and carrying patients, moving the stretcher, basic communication with patients and family members, taking a blood pressure in a moving vehicle or how to find or operate basic equipment in an ambulance.

I agree that it certainly doesn't take a year of EMT experience to learn how to do these things. However, these are skill that need to be included in the training, or at least in the clinical experience of paramedic candidates. I can't tell you how many new "zero to hero" paramedics I've met that don't know how to operate the ambulance stretcher, have no idea how to use the suction unit in the ambulance or take a blood pressure not using a life pack.

These folks need to spend some time on an ambulance, doing it, before they become ALS paragods.

Of course, that's all anecdotal. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Akulahawk]

Since we seem to be citing anecdotal experience as hard and fast truth, let me share a few of my experiences.

I found that peope who proceed from entry-level to Paramedic with no field experience have difficulty in performing the essential basics of the job. That is, lifting and carrying patients, moving the stretcher, basic communication with patients and family members, taking a blood pressure in a moving vehicle or how to find or operate basic equipment in an ambulance.

I agree that it certainly doesn't take a year of EMT experience to learn how to do these things. However, these are skill that need to be included in the training, or at least in the clinical experience of paramedic candidates. I can't tell you how many new "zero to hero" paramedics I've met that don't know how to operate the ambulance stretcher, have no idea how to use the suction unit in the ambulance or take a blood pressure not using a life pack.

These folks need to spend some time on an ambulance, doing it, before they become ALS paragods.

Of course, that's all anecdotal. Your mileage may vary.

Most of the Paramedic Preceptors I've talked with over the years have a similar experience. Mine wanted me do just do EMT stuff for the first shift or two. Why? He wanted to be sure that I've mastered my BLS skills and other operational stuff (like suction & stretcher use for instance) because that's what I'm going to use most of the time and that way he didn't have to worry about teaching me how to be an EMT along with teaching me how to be a Paramedic too. While it's possible, it would have taken longer.

Zero to Hero programs should build in enough actual on-the-street time so that their graduates can, quite literally, hop on an ambulance and be able to operate everything onboard, or be able to do so with a quick orientation to where everything is and how it works. I'd want those programs to have their field internship time to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 1200 hours total, and for regular programs, somewhere in the neighborhood of 1000 hours.

Hey, I can dream, right?

 

[chief]

Yeah having at least a little experience I think is a must. I only had 2 months of book knowledge before I got on an ambulance for ride time and I honestly wasn't confident in doing most stuff like using the suction machine, getting the ECG ready or even talking to patients/family. I was just the bp/stair chair guy lol. I believe in going to pm school right after emt school because the test info is still fresh in your mind but at the same time getting plenty of experience in the field as to be confident when first working as a paramedic.

 

[eprex]

Having some experience is great, but you could probably accomplish that by being a "buff" for a few months and getting tons of calls under your belt. A lot of these seasoned vets seem to get complacent and that's not a good thing.

 

[AlphaMedic68]

It would seem that there are many opinions on this subject, so I will offer mine lol. I think it basically comes down to "can you do the job?" We all know people who are incredibly book smart and somewhat lacking in common sense. We all know people who have a wealth of common sense, but for whatever reason don't do very well in an academic environment. Sixteen years as a medic in the military taught me that you will come into contact with people who were top of their class and completely fall apart under pressure. I think that for the most part, mandated requirements such as these are simply the easiest way for agencies across the board to ensure the competency of the individuals. It would be too costly and time consuming to evaluate the real-world skills of each individual before allowing them into medic school, so some sort of standards have to be put in place. Is it fair to everyone? no. My best example would be if you responded to an MVA with multiple patients, would you rather be with the Basic who was top of his class but not much hands on in the field, or the Advanced who was a marginal student but has been in the field and has experience operating at that level? The requirements and standards such as these are to ensure the quality of the product being put into the field. Again, just my opinion.