EMS Diversity and inclusion

EMS and public safety are a little less "diverse" then a lot of other fields because the educations, mindsets, cultural factors and criminal-background qualifications tend to weed out larger portions of the impoverished white, African-American and Hispanic communities than they do other communities. Until you can change those maladapted cultures to impart useful values, you'll see a significant diversity challenge in terms of numbers. Not ethnicity, just background and economics.
 
Another issue is that a good portion of EMS is volunteer. Volunteer work is normally performed by people in higher socioeconomic classes as they have the disposable time and income.

You really can't have the time to volunteer if you are working multiple jobs trying to make ends meet
 
Kavsuvb said:
Do you make it a point to hire those who live in the town or hire those who speak the language or know the culture of the city that you work in.
Click to expand...
your making several assumptions here. 1) that people who live in town are the best candidate 2) that those who live in town are "minorities" or who would make your agency more "diverse" 3) your assuming those who speak the local language are not white men, and that an outsider wouldn't fit in with the locals and 4) you are assuming that non-locals won't do the job as well as those who live in town, and as someone who enjoys working on ambulances and fire trucks in ****ty areas, I have 0 desire to raise my family in said ****ty area, but that doesn't mean I still won't do my job to the best of my ability.
Kavsuvb said:
What about Minority recruitment, does your agency try to show young minorities the EMS profession in schools and show them the potential as a EMS career in the future.
Click to expand...
Why? and by that I mean, are there agencies that are showing the majority that EMS is a profession, and holding signs saying "minorities need not apply?" Everyone has the same opportunities, everyone should be given the same recruitment, speeches, if the "young minorities" either don't show up or aren't interested, is that a failure of the EMS recruiter?
Kavsuvb said:
I know outside of Major cities like Los Angeles, San francisco, San diego, Seattle, Chicago, Philadelphia, New York City and Boston, you would see a huge amount of Diversity within the EMS professions in those major cities.
Click to expand...
are you kidding me? FDNY is so white and male, that it has a DOJ consent decree to hire more minorities. They get sued constantly, and their tests are accused of being racist (based on the end results of who scores the highest, not based on the content). I'm sure Chicago and Philly are the same way and I don't know how the west coast is. There is a constant battle between the NYC's administration and certain people as to whether standards should be lowered to allow for a more diverse set of employees or to only recruit the best of the best, and then only pass those who are able to complete the minimum job requirements to graduate from the academy.

Everyone has the same opportunity to apply, but if minorities chose not to apply, they don't get hired. see previous post about leading a horse to water....

Kavsuvb said:
Outside of them in the small towns and rural communities, Diversity and Inclusion is largely unheard of.
Click to expand...
says who? what are you basing this on? Has there been any research on this topic? has there been any analysis on what this occurs?

if a small town or rural area is 100% white, do you expect the EMS agency to be very diverse? I have never seen any small town or rural community actively turn away minorities, or throw their applications in the trash, or tell them they don't fit what they are looking for.... What about those systems that are still volunteer based? very few people are turned, away, provided they meet the minimum standards.... you can't force people to apply to be a volunteer?

I have worked EMS in small towns in NJ, and everyone is welcome to apply.... I currently work in ruralish NC, and I see minorities on the ambulance all the time... but if the county is 99% white, do you expect EMS to be 50% non-white?
Kavsuvb said:
It's why places like FDNY and Boston EMS can be very diverse and inclusive, but how come they can replicate the same thing in the suburbs and rural communities.
Click to expand...
Again, the cities are very diverse, but those employees did the first step by applying for the job... and they all did the same things that their white counterparts did.

In statistics, there is a common phrase: Correlation does not imply causation. Just because something appears to be connected, doesn't mean it is. Just because EMS has few minorities doesn't mean it's actively rejecting minority applicants, preventing minorities from applying or doing anything to not have a diverse workforce.

Unless you support the lowering of standards to allow for previously ineligible applicants to get hired, all in the name of "diversity"....
 
Last edited:
I am a white boy who has lived and worked on the border with Mexico for almost 40 years. I learned the predominant language Spanish, and familiarized myself with the culture. That doesn't mean I adopted it, but I understand it.

Where I live, and used to work, depending on your source, 90 to 98 percent of the people can speak Spanish. About 50% speak only Spanish. Somewhere around 60 percent speak Spanish in the home. Most of my co-workers were of Hispanic decent. Were we supposed to seek and search for someone of far Eastern decent who does not speak the predominant language?

Vital signs can only tell you so much. How do you do a decent assessment if you can't talk to the patient? But, even at that, they can and will hire monolingual people. How much "diversity" do you expect based on arbitrary numbers generated by someone who has no idea about how conditions are on the ground?
 
Old Tracker said:
Vital signs can only tell you so much. How do you do a decent assessment if you can't talk to the patient? But, even at that, they can and will hire monolingual people.
Click to expand...
My Spanish ability is between ok and ehhhh.. I can usually get the information I need, at least enough not to kill the patient. I worked in an area that had a decent sized spanish only speaking population, but I also learned key words to do my job.... by no one is going to mistake me for a native speaker.

How can you assess a person when you can't talk to them? well, how do you assess an unconscious patient? use the tools you have at your disposal; language line, google translate, heck, I one asked a 7 year old off the street to assist because the patient only spoke Spanish. you do what you can.

my brother in law's mother speaks Arabic and Hebrew... and that's it, she doesn't speak a word of English... if i moved to your area (we are the 1% who doesn't speak Spanish), and she's visiting me, your Spanish won't be very useful in assessing her.

Do as best you can with the tools you have at your disposal.
 
EMS is not a field where lowered standards are OK for the sake of "diversity".
 
RocketMedic said:
EMS is not a field where lowered standards are OK for the sake of "diversity".
Click to expand...
In all fairness, I don't believe that "diversity" and high standards are mutually exclusive. I don't think you think that either. But I do believe that there are some folks that are willing to exchange excellent care for the validation of their narratives...stay sharp! Take good care of the folks entrusted to you! Screw the rest!
 
Everyone is talking about "taking the best" and "not sacrificing quality for diversity", but every place I've worked as been so desperate for people that they'd hire a purple alien with three heads that all told offensive jokes if it had an EMT card and could get through a few days of FTO.

I'm all for diversity in EMS, but I'm not going to kid myself that we're attracting the best of the best to come work at a place with most of the danger and stress of firefighting and police work, but without the pay, union, or pension.
 
rescue1 said:
Everyone is talking about "taking the best" and "not sacrificing quality for diversity", but every place I've worked as been so desperate for people that they'd hire a purple alien with three heads that all told offensive jokes if it had an EMT card and could get through a few days of FTO.

I'm all for diversity in EMS, but I'm not going to kid myself that we're attracting the best of the best to come work at a place with most of the danger and stress of firefighting and police work, but without the pay, union, or pension.
Click to expand...

Well, this is it, isn't It? Folk's ability is sometimes pretty disconnected from their interest...So attracting disinterested folks doesn't make a whole lot of sense...
 
But then again, for the sake of Future generations, how come EMS doesn't push for Diversity and Inclusion. How come we don't do a good job of showing minorities in minority communities that EMS can be a profession for them in the future. When you look at it from the eyes and view of minorities, they tend to view EMS as a white, middle class profession, something that's only for them and that mindset is something that turns off minorities who could one day come into the EMS profession. So it makes me wonder, how can we change the mindset of EMS, where it's predominantly white, middle class and show that EMS is willing to be a diverse and inclusive profession for minorities we serve.

It's like that in my line of work with the US Coast Guard as a Diversity officer, where I try to show and promote that the USCG is an equal opportunity and doesn't care about race, sex, sexual orientation, nationality or gender identity. As long as you can meet the standards and do the job. It's why the USCG has more women, who are flag officers and women who are pilots, Cutter commanders and Rescue swimmers.
 
Kavsuvb said:
When you look at it from the eyes and view of minorities, they tend to view EMS as a white, middle class profession...
Click to expand...

Says who? Where is that data?

I have worked in several different EMS systems and the staff have always been a pretty good representation of the local communities.
 
Kavsuvb said:
When you look at it from the eyes and view of minorities, they tend to view EMS as a white, middle class profession, something that's only for them.
Click to expand...
I cringed at this, but since you’re adamant about continuing this discussion I will openly admit that I would be lying if I said I didn’t see things differently in my younger years. You often grow up with views identical to others around you who are often of the same ethnicity. It’s the plain and simple truth.
NPO said:
Says who?
Click to expand...
Sadly, it’s a thing bro. With all races...all races in terms of what I have mentioned regarding growing up with similar mindsets of those around you. It is what it is, you either grow up and succeed, or you don’t (ref: below’s post).
Kavsuvb said:
How come we don't do a good job of showing minorities in minority communities that EMS can be a profession for them in the future.
Click to expand...
Clearly we do. I’m a minority (arguably not anymore, but I digress...) who grew up in a minority community. Guess what? As @NPO mentioned so are many of his former, and my current colleagues.

I think the problem really stems from people who build that wall in their mind and keep it there. Apparently you’re failing to comprehend how EMS in the United States works. If you’re asking why it appears to appeal mostly young white males then maybe you’re the wrong person to be selected as a diversion officer.

Like I said, born and raised in a 90% Mexican/ Latino state/ city/ culture. None of it ever stopped me from feeling I can’t do this job. Why should anyone else from my area, or in my shoes feel any differently? Because they choose stunt their personal progress with their own prejudices and biases? Who’s fault is that really?
 
Last edited:
"Minority" outreach is wasted effort that can be done on outreach period.
 
I think it's important to have a diverse workforce regardless of the industry. That said those agencies I've had any contact with are mostly white males (and maybe 5 percent white females) with very little diversity. However most of my experience has been in Texas and in a very homogenous part of Texas at that. I think the the key to diversity in EMS is starting kids off young. School fairs, career days, EMS summer camps. My last agency had a high school EMS program in which kids graduated with both a diploma and an EMT certification. I think this is fantastic, it gives them a solid career to work on and a sense of pride. As the public becomes more diverse it's imperative that the EMS workforce become more diverse.
 
Kavsuvb said:
But then again, for the sake of Future generations, how come EMS doesn't push for Diversity and Inclusion. How come we don't do a good job of showing minorities in minority communities that EMS can be a profession for them in the future. When you look at it from the eyes and view of minorities, they tend to view EMS as a white, middle class profession, something that's only for them and that mindset is something that turns off minorities who could one day come into the EMS profession. So it makes me wonder, how can we change the mindset of EMS, where it's predominantly white, middle class and show that EMS is willing to be a diverse and inclusive profession for minorities we serve.
Click to expand...
I have never seen any EMS agency actively turn away minorities. I have never seen any outreach activities occur at KKK rallies, neo nazi events, or white supremacist get together. Have you seen an application be given to a white supervisor, and it immediately gets shredded because the applicant was black?

What am I missing here? Minorities are more than welcome to apply and do the job; you act like someone is actively preventing them. If you meet the background requirements (which aren't that hard), the education requirements (which aren't the hard), and the time commitment requirements (again, not that hard), fill out the application, and then start working. show up, do your job, it isn't really rocket science. but the first step is for the "minorities" to show interest in the field and fill out the application.
Kavsuvb said:
It's like that in my line of work with the US Coast Guard as a Diversity officer, where I try to show and promote that the USCG is an equal opportunity and doesn't care about race, sex, sexual orientation, nationality or gender identity.
Click to expand...
good for you. my local EMS department doesn't care about race, sex, sexual orientation, nationality or gender identify (although if you don't cheer for one of the big three football teams, your career prospects take a nosedive). what's your point?
Kavsuvb said:
As long as you can meet the standards and do the job.
Click to expand...
at least we agree on this. Some advocate lowering standards in order to include more minorities.
Kavsuvb said:
It's why the USCG has more women, who are flag officers and women who are pilots, Cutter commanders and Rescue swimmers.
Click to expand...
wait, you mean the majority of flag officers are women? and the majority of pilots are women? and there are more female cutter commanders, and rescue swimmers than men? I think you need to revisit your numbers, or restate your claim.
 
Racism exists in all fields and yes this includes EMS. I've seen it first hand and while I have no experience in management I have zero doubt that it exists there as well. Not in every instance, but only a fool would argue that there is no racism, misogyny, homophobia, xenophobia or ableism in EMS. Again I'm in Texas so It might be a bit more prevalent in my neck of the woods.
 
I am not naive enough to say say that discrimination for various reasons doesn't exist; however I don't think it's as systemically prevalent as the OP is claiming, where there is a huge push throughout the industry to keep minorities out.

There are racists in every field, and EMS is no exception; and could we be more welcoming? sure, as could any industry that has a reputation of eating their young (and healthcare is rife is this). But there is no reason why your minority outreach programs cannot be done during your normal outreach, and the first step in every minority's career is filling out the application (either for the job or for school).

I am 100% against lowering standards in the name of diversity (as in lowering standards to allow more minorities to apply, or lowering passing scores to allow more minorities to qualify, or allowing non-white males who are unable to pass the baseline final exams to be put on the job, when a similar white mail would not be allowed to mass), as I think everyone had to satisfy the same requirements to get the job, and the public only deserves the best of the best.
 
DrParasite said:
While I think having a diverse staff is important, I am against lowering standards in the name of diversity...
Click to expand...

My current operation has done exactly that, in that they removed the written and psychomotor testing from the selection process.

It wasn't done in the name of diversity persay (a few years ago, they had something like 12 applicants for a hire class and none of them passed the written) but the effect is still the same. Lowered standards = sub standard employees.
 
bigbaldguy said:
So hiring diversity means lowering standards?
Click to expand...

Probably referring to Affirmative Action when minorities are preferentially hired sometimes under-qualified compared to peers or other applicants.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top