EMS, a romantic notion.

[NYMedic828]

This is a little long winded:

When I was 26, I decided that I needed to do more than work off the books as a Snapple delivery man and a bouncer. I wanted a decent career with benefits and retirement. I thought about what career could fit that criteria. I recalled that two of my cousins worked FDNY EMS, so I talked with them, and decided that EMS was a career I would enjoy, and the money was decent ($14-$20/hr for EMT's at NS-LIJ, $22-$30/hr for medics). I worked per diem for a private at $9.50/hr just to build a resume and got hired by the hospital seven months later. About two years in, my wife and I were expecting our first child, and we were barely getting by bill-to-bill.

So, I had to decide between nursing school and medic school. 3 years vs 13 months, for the same money if I just pulled two extra tours a month. The plan was to do FDNY EMS, but while in the process one of my former co-workers came up to visit from Virginia where he was hired as a FF/medic. He told me all about it, so I lost interest in FDNY EMS and began the process down South. I really didn't see myself sitting on street corners getting my stones busted by the conditions Boss for 25 years for not enough money and 25% less pension than FDNY fire. The hospitals are all 401k or 403b, so screw that.

I failed one poly and thought I failed the second (they do that routinely as a tactic to illicit confessions), so took a job in a Third Service in SC while my wife was still agreeable to leaving NY. That place was undesireable to me. All of the burnout issues were present there. About three months in, I received a job offer from my current employer, so I left after five months or so in SC.

$53k in the academy, $71k after clearing ALS internship, now a $84k/yr base four + years in with a promotion already obtained, excellent benefits, 25/55 pension w/ a 2.8% multiplier, and a three year DROP. I had always wanted to do fire as well as EMS, so this just worked out perfectly. My employer supplies me with all the tools necessary to do my job in EMS well, and I ride the bus typically two days out of every three. Last year I grossed $128k w/OT and another few grand from my per diem hospital based medic IFT job, and I'm paced to hit $140k this year.

THAT's why I've stayed in EMS. Excellent working conditions with ample benefits and pay. At this point in my life, with a wife, two children, a mortgage, and a retirement to fund, addressing these needs is the point, addressing these needs is of paramount importance. I still enjoy EMS work, at least the acute cases and patients that are truly appreciative,but 10+ years in I'm sure that I would have burned out had I stayed either in the NYC 911 system or in SC.

You see, I had no intention to financially martyr myself for the good of EMS. I decided that if I wanted to stay in the field, it would need to be with an employer that would take really good care of us. So, I sold out and went fire based. I still do the exact same job I did previously at least two days out of every three, with top of the line equipment and decent protocols/guidelines, and I also have an engine full of people to carry my equipment and the pt as well. No more six floor walk-ups with just me and my partner, humping all our equipment and then taking all of that back down along with the pt. I can ask questions and gather info while other people do vitals, package the pt, and deliver them to the back of my bus, where I can go to work. I can do this for 40 years if I want to.

Capiche?

Edit: Almost forgot, in addition to the money, I wanted to be able to do more for my patients - that was of equal importance to the pay, truth be told. I'd felt handcuffed as an EMT-B - I have a reasonable idea what the pt needs, or maybe I would like to know so that I could help them, but don't have the education or diagnostics, so I give them air and chair until someone that can actually help shows up. Like I said, I still enjoy paramedic work when it actually makes a difference. Frivolous calls kill my motivation and job satisfaction, but the working conditions at this career definitely mitigate that. Where else do you get to sleep and exercise on duty, and knock out degrees OTJ?

Stories like these are the kind people just don't understand. Your phrasing could not be more dead on. It isn't wise to martyr yourself for the good of EMS. It's that simple. EMS is not out to save me, I'm going to look out for myself and my future family before all else.


I debated applying for fairfax Virginia but il make
Firefighter in January so it isn't worth it at this point.

 

[46Young]

Stories like these are the kind people just don't understand. Your phrasing could not be more dead on. It isn't wise to martyr yourself for the good of EMS. It's that simple. EMS is not out to save me, I'm going to look out for myself and my future family before all else.


I debated applying for fairfax Virginia but il make
Firefighter in January so it isn't worth it at this point.

Good luck! Best job in the world!

I'll have to do Savannah GA one year for St. Paddy's Day. It's popular with firefighters. I used to do Olympic Weightlifting at Lost Battalion Hall off Queens Blvd, and Joe Triolo was my coach (OTJ w/ FDNY). He used to mention that he goes to Savannah for St Paddy's. I should give him a call.

 

[NYMedic828]

Good luck! Best job in the world!

I'll have to do Savannah GA one year for St. Paddy's Day. It's popular with firefighters. I used to do Olympic Weightlifting at Lost Battalion Hall off Queens Blvd, and Joe Triolo was my coach (OTJ w/ FDNY). He used to mention that he goes to Savannah for St Paddy's. I should give him a call.

Been with FDNY EMS nearly 4 years come January. All waiting for the promotional to firefighter.

It hasn't been a terrible experience but if presented the option again I assure you I would be sitting at a desk in school instead of staring at the dash board getting yelled at by bosses for no apparent reason.

 

[abckidsmom]

Way to sum it up, 46Y. I am a fan of the fire-based system too. I love being crossed-trained, I don't think that general-purpose firefighting is all that difficult to learn well, and it makes a nice diversion from running just EMS.

I agree 100% with your post, only make it a state retirement plus city pension, 90 mile commute, and 5 kids' (4 daughters') start to their lives to fund. I love the NOVA salary on the central VA cost of living.

 

[NYMedic828]

I wish FDNY was a little better in the cross trained division.

It's really quite silly. A solid 1/4 of FDNY fireman if not more are EMTs, medics, RNs, NPs and PAs. Every FDNY firefighter is only permitted to function as a CFR, essentially a worthless title.

I believe the main reason is a union issue between EMS and Fire. We have two separate unions. The EMS one is worthless.

 

[mycrofft]

46young, I'm rooting for you, especially the OJT stuff. Keep swimning upstream because on the job injuries can take you out if all you have are street skills. Your post brightened my day.

 

[ExpatMedic0]

Capiche?

Ya I get you. I would not say you sold out simply because you work in a fire based system right now. It is what it is. However those systems are still a part of EMS. It sounded by your previous quote your being bit hypocritical though? It seems as though you are quite happy with your career as a Paramedic right now.

 

[NYMedic828]

Ya I get you. I would not say you sold out simply because you work in a fire based system right now. It is what it is. However those systems are still a part of EMS. It sounded by your previous quote your being bit hypocritical though? It seems as though you are quite happy with your career as a Paramedic right now.

Because he makes a livable wage.

He makes $140,000 being classified as a firefighter paramedic. Mind you his title is firefighter with paramedic as a supplement to his training.

I make $60,000 as a paramedic. Sorry, forget that.

 

[Handsome Robb]

I make $60,000 as a paramedic. Sorry, forget that.

Must be tough. I net 40k after taxes as a paramedic with no OT, albeit I make more than that because I choose to work OT....

 

[VFlutter]

Because he makes a livable wage.

He makes $140,000 being classified as a firefighter paramedic. Mind you his title is firefighter with paramedic as a supplement to his training.

I make $60,000 as a paramedic. Sorry, forget that.

Just curious, how much do RNs in NYC make? I will be making around $50K as a new grad whereas non-fire medics around here make 30-40K. I am sure the cost of living is way cheaper here.

 

[46Young]

Way to sum it up, 46Y. I am a fan of the fire-based system too. I love being crossed-trained, I don't think that general-purpose firefighting is all that difficult to learn well, and it makes a nice diversion from running just EMS.

I agree 100% with your post, only make it a state retirement plus city pension, 90 mile commute, and 5 kids' (4 daughters') start to their lives to fund. I love the NOVA salary on the central VA cost of living.

Same deal, only it's under an hour's commute for me

 

[46Young]

Been with FDNY EMS nearly 4 years come January. All waiting for the promotional to firefighter.

It hasn't been a terrible experience but if presented the option again I assure you I would be sitting at a desk in school instead of staring at the dash board getting yelled at by bosses for no apparent reason.

Good to do it (college) while you're young. It's when you have kids, a mortgage, and other bills that the EMS job plus OT becomes vital, and there's no time to go back to school. That's the EMS trap - the money is just good enough, with OT or per diem work added, to keep you from going back to school. Next thing you know, you're 40 y/o and still living bill-to bill with little to no retirement savings. That's where people that say "you can survive on a medic salary if you just live within your means" get burned.

 

[46Young]

46young, I'm rooting for you, especially the OJT stuff. Keep swimning upstream because on the job injuries can take you out if all you have are street skills. Your post brightened my day.

I appreciate it. Every day I do a mobility drill I learned from a Mike Mahler Kettlebell Workshop, and do CrossFit/Paleo.

 

[Veneficus]

and I'm paced to hit $140k this year.

Can you get me a job there?

 

[46Young]

Ya I get you. I would not say you sold out simply because you work in a fire based system right now. It is what it is. However those systems are still a part of EMS. It sounded by your previous quote your being bit hypocritical though? It seems as though you are quite happy with your career as a Paramedic right now.

I'm happy because I can work as a medic with state-of-the-art equipment, enjoy desireable working conditions, and also be financially secure.

When I first came here, I thought having an engine run with us on all ALS calls and MVA's was overkill. It still is, but now I like it that there's 5-6 people to provide pt care, carry bags, carry the pt, turn my rig around, etc, rather than just two of us most of the time. I used to take pride in the fact that my partner and I could get ALS interventions onboard really quick, and be out to the hospital in no time, just by ourselves, but having the lifting and other tasks spread aout over 5-6 people makes the job more sustainable for the long term. My body's taking maybe 1/5 the abuse it was taking on the streets of NY, maybe less, since we don't post on street corners and can exercise at the station.

The flip-flop from medic to engine, and the availability of lateral positions such as EMS Admin (education), Fire Investigations, Prevention, Peer Fitness Trainer, Fire Academy Instructor, etc, keeps EMS txp from becomeing stale, which makes for a long, happy career.

I've heard the figure of 7-10 years as being the average timeframe for burnout in EMS, and I believe that's accurate. That 7-10 years gets stretched way out where I work by dividing the labor, and performing functions other than EMS ground txp all day, every single day, for one's entire career. It's not so much that EMS 24/7/365 is boring and frustrating for the long term in it's own right, it's just that many of us need variation in our job functions. I find that particularly with A-types, doing the same thing day in and day out gets painfully boring after some time.

If EMS had a real career ladder, with ample promotional opportunites (even merit positions like ranks below officer), and more lateral positions like vehicle extrication, Swift Water, Hazmat, something like the FD's Peer Fitness, Community medics (like Wake's ACP's) and such, with fire's pay scale and retirement, I probably wouldn't have entertained the thought of leaving NY. But, that type of system doesn't exist, as far as I know, unless it's a combined fire/EMS department.

 

[46Young]

Because he makes a livable wage.

He makes $140,000 being classified as a firefighter paramedic. Mind you his title is firefighter with paramedic as a supplement to his training.

I make $60,000 as a paramedic. Sorry, forget that.

That's a big part of it. I look at career selection from the opposite angle that many others do - I decide that a career must pay well, good bennies, etc. etc. Then, I choose from the careers that fit my criteria. It happens to be that EMS was something I thought about for a long time, and so was fire, so it just worked out perfectly. Even with all of EMS' faults, I'd still rather be on the road doing my thing rather than in a hospital, though that may change as I get older.

When I retire from the FD, if I can't get a Chief's spot in another dept, or an OEM position, I'll try for EMS Supervisor in a Third Service or hospital. If that doesn't happen, I would be okay with being a per diem IFT medic just to keep a little busy.

 

[46Young]

Must be tough. I net 40k after taxes as a paramedic with no OT, albeit I make more than that because I choose to work OT....

Yes, but $60k/yr doesn't go too far in NYC where I'm from, or in LI where NYMedic lives.

You pay local taxes in addition to State and Federal in NYC, car insurance is astronomical, so is fuel, a 2 BR apartment that's not in the ghetto costs from $1500/month to well over $2000/month in even a lower middle class neighborhood. Forget about owning a house unless you go in with family for a 2-family plus rented basement, like a lot of foreigners do, where all the adults work FT while the grandparents provide free child care. Property taxes in LI can and do run north of $10,000/yr as a rule. Some property tax bills run the same as the mortgage on my $330,000 house here in VA!

$60,000/yr is practically welfare wages in NY unless you're single and living in a studio apartment in the outer boroughs.

 

[46Young]

Just curious, how much do RNs in NYC make? I will be making around $50K as a new grad whereas non-fire medics around here make 30-40K. I am sure the cost of living is way cheaper here.

IIRC, back in 2006-2007, it was around $35/yr inside the city, and it dropped the further out you went on LI, and I remember Stonybrook Hospital (NYS facility) offering $65k/yr.

 

[46Young]

Can you get me a job there?

That's with a 56 hour/week work schedule, and maybe 20 hours/week OT/per diem work. Easy OT though, most of the time. Go in for the evening half (12 hrs), PT, run a call or two, and sleep.

The FLSA rules are where we really make out - The threshold is 212 hrs in a four week pay cycle. If I do the OT early in the pay cycle, those hours count towards that number, so I hit time and a half much sooner, sometimes 60-70 hours sooner or more. That's 1/2 time x 60-70 hours. You do the math. My last FLSA bonus was more than $1400 on top of my regular pay and OT. It all adds up nicely. Good tradeoff for getting straight time 53 out of 56 hours/week, on the average.

 

[Veneficus]

That's with a 56 hour/week work schedule, and maybe 20 hours/week OT/per diem work. Easy OT though, most of the time. Go in for the evening half (12 hrs), PT, run a call or two, and sleep.

The FLSA rules are where we really make out - The threshold is 212 hrs in a four week pay cycle. If I do the OT early in the pay cycle, those hours count towards that number, so I hit time and a half much sooner, sometimes 60-70 hours sooner or more. That's 1/2 time x 60-70 hours. You do the math. My last FLSA bonus was more than $1400 on top of my regular pay and OT. It all adds up nicely. Good tradeoff for getting straight time 53 out of 56 hours/week, on the average.

Like I said, I'll take. You can put me on a heavy rescue and never hear a complaint from me.