Educational Opportunities beyond AAS

EMSLaw

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We talk about education a lot on this site, as the cure to much of what ails American EMS. I've been giving some thought to this, and I suppose I have a question.

As many of you may know, I already have a bachelor's degree and a JD. If I decided to pursue, say, nursing, I could enter an accellerated program and come out with a BSN or, depending on the program, an entry-level MSN. There is then an educational progression from there, depending on one's chosen career path, up through masters and doctoral level degrees.

Paramedics seem to have the choice between a diploma and an AAS in Paramedicine. There are a few schools offering initial bachelor's degrees in Paramedicine or EMS. But beyond the entry level, what is there?

If I decided to make a career of EMS, and to be one of those people who sets EMS policy - something I think a law degree and good "street" experience is well suited for - the obvious first step is to pick up a P-card. But after that, what is there? Is there even a career ladder for EMS that lets you increase your education and become more than just someone who is a "supervisor" in that they wear a gold badge while driving an ambulance.

So, I suppose this is a "where do we go from here." Nobody really wants to be riding a truck and moving patients for 30 years (I don't think), but it seems like one of the problems with EMS is that it's a job, without career prospects. Am I missing something? Are there programs out there at the graduate level that prepare students for EMS leadership roles (beyond an MD, EM residency, and EMS fellowship?)
 

Veneficus

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sort of

Most advanced curriculum for medics is organizational/administrative in nature, but the opportunities only exist in larger more exceptional services.

Some go on to get a bachelors and masters in various forms of public administration.

Other than that education is a big draw. I know 2 people who have a PhD (physiology and emergency management respectively) I also know one medic who has a maters in adult education.

Having an advanced degree and being a paramedic may also support your advancement in agencies such as DHS, FEMA, and IRC.

One of my friends got a really good job as a state coordinator with a BS in gerentology.

There are also hospital positions such as EMS coordinator, and a few others.

One of EMS biggest problems is "brain drain."
 
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EMSLaw

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One of EMS biggest problems is "brain drain."

I think that's the problem. When you reach the point in your career where you're, for one reason or another, "done" with being a street medic, there isn't much of a way up from there that I can see. This is especially true at private ambulance companies, where there isn't much of a "middle management" strata - or even an upper management to speak of. Obviously, if you're in the fire service, one of the advantages is that there is probably a promotional structure to pursue from field supervisior all the way up to something like chief executive. I suppose at larger services, there are more supervisory and administrative roles to move into as well.

Many of us here are obviously reasonably smart and motivated. What is it that such a person can do in EMS that's beyond merely moving sick people from point A to point B while providing some level of care.
 

46Young

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I think that's the problem. When you reach the point in your career where you're, for one reason or another, "done" with being a street medic, there isn't much of a way up from there that I can see. This is especially true at private ambulance companies, where there isn't much of a "middle management" strata - or even an upper management to speak of. Obviously, if you're in the fire service, one of the advantages is that there is probably a promotional structure to pursue from field supervisior all the way up to something like chief executive. I suppose at larger services, there are more supervisory and administrative roles to move into as well.

Many of us here are obviously reasonably smart and motivated. What is it that such a person can do in EMS that's beyond merely moving sick people from point A to point B while providing some level of care.

I think that you have a pretty accurate view of things. The career advancement opportunities of single role EMS are rather limited. A few field supervisor positions, and maybe a spot in upper admin if you're in the right click. A good number of FD's promote off of a list that uses a score from a written test, an oral board, and some give educational points as part of the score. I haven't seen that type of process in straight EMS. It's more about who you know instead.

As far as FD's, there's many different areas to go into. Many Capt II, BC, DC, ans AC positions require specific degrees to occupy certain positions. An MBA for business services, for example. There's an EMS career ladder up to BC, and one can lateral over to suppression or dual hat at any time after testing for that position. There's also fire investigation, and detective for the Fire Marshall's office. You need to be a LT. They send you to the police academy, and then to college afterward. Pretty cool. I might do that at some point. I can still do OT on the bus if I want.

Where I work they're currently revamping the promotional process. Most likely education will hold increasing weight toward the final list score the higher you go. As it stands, education for the tech is 10% of the score. LT is 15%. Capt I, 20%. Capt II, 25%. BC also 25%. DC and AC are appointed positions. There will likely be a requirement of a two year degree to qualify for a LT promotion, and a four year for Capt II and above. Right or wrong, that makes fire based EMS a more attractive option for some.

As far as EMS education, I feel that additional didactic content would lead many to branch off to more established and lucrative career paths. If you're talking about an EMS degree that rivals that of an RN or even a PA, they'll just become an RN or PA. I'm sure that it wouldn't take too much extra to lateral over. If one takes all these higher level medical courses, they'll likely use these classes to pursue nursing or something else more rewarding (financially and for career advancement) rather than dedicate their educational efforts to a field with little room for advancement as it is. If I want to do "real IFT txp" and be paid well for it, I'll get my BSN then work toward critical care, PICU/NICU or flight instead of gaining additional clinical education in EMS. That's where the opportunities to do "real" work are, in nursing and related fields.

Like Veneficus said, there are opportunities in emergency management and such. It's pretty slim pickings otherwise.

Veneficus, I saw that you sent me a PM a while back. I've been offline for a bit, busy with work and family. I'll get back to you soon.
 
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ah2388

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its my intent to end up with a BS in Paramedicine/Emergency Management...possibly going to graduate school after that..

With all that being said, you make a really great point.
 

Pneumothorax

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are there colleges/universities that offer BS degrees in parmedicine/EM?

im curious to find out.
 

usafmedic45

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Yes, the major (oldest?) one is University of Maryland. I believe it is the College Park campus but don't hold me to that. The major drawback is that working as an EMS provider in Maryland is a prime example of getting to see several bad practices in play. When I was living out there I used to say it was the only way I would ever get to see what EMS was like in the late 1980s. The sad thing was I was there from 2001 through 2003. They also have the most aggregious and effectively unchecked abuse of helicopters in the nation and are not infrequently held out as an example of how not to run a state EMS system especially from a CQI (continous quality improvement) standpoint. I've heard good things about the U of M program but then again the problem is that you would be doing your clinical work among people who still believe medical science related to prehospital care began and ended with R. Adams Cowley.

Other programs I am aware of are Western Carolina University and there is one in Kentucky somewhere if memory serves correctly. There are probably a couple of others as well, but I have not looked into it for a long time.
 
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EMSLaw

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There are fourteen BS in Paramedicine or EMS programs, if JEMS is to be believed.

By comparison, there are 150 medical schools and roughly 190 ABA approved law schools in the country. So, practically speaking, Paramedicine programs leading to a Bachelor's degree are hen's teeth. I believe George Washington also has a Masters in EMS management, and there are one or two others. UMBC, maybe, and I forget where else.
 
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EMSLaw

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Sorry for the double tap, but I stumbled across this and found it interesting...

JEMS. 1992 Aug;17(8):69-70, 73-4.
EMS degree programs. Opening doors you didn't know existed.

Polk DA, Langford SJ.

University of Maryland Baltimore County.
Abstract

Bachelor's and master's degrees in EMS are not yet commonplace, but with each year, they are becoming more important. A degree in EMS can provide not only the essentials of good paramedic skills, but also a knowledge of biology, anatomy and physiology, advanced chemistry and EMS management. Dwight Polk and Stuart Langford discuss the current status of bachelor's and master's degree programs in EMS and talk to people who have gone far in their chosen careers because they have such a degree.

In 1992 they were "not yet common." In 2010, they're still not. We've come a long way, baby.
 

usafmedic45

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There are fourteen BS in Paramedicine or EMS programs, if JEMS is to be believed.

By comparison, there are 150 medical schools and roughly 190 ABA approved law schools in the country. So, practically speaking, Paramedicine programs leading to a Bachelor's degree are hen's teeth. I believe George Washington also has a Masters in EMS management, and there are one or two others. UMBC, maybe, and I forget where else.
From JEMS website (the link provided earlier):
ALABAMA
University of South Alabama
Mobile, AL
334/431-6418
www.southalabama.edu/ems/bachelor.html

CALIFORNIA
Loma Linda University
Loma Linda, CA
909/558-4932; 800/422-4558
www.llu.edu/llu/sahp/emc/index.html
San Jose State University
Palo Alto, CA
650/949-6972
www.sjsu.edu/healthscience/programs/undergraduate/options/Option_5/

DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA (Washington)
George Washington University
(EMS Management Bachelor’s Degree)
202/741-2940
www.gwumc.edu/healthsci/programs/ems_bs/

KENTUCKY
Eastern Kentucky University
Richmond, KY
859/622-1028 x3
www.emc.eku.edu
MARYLAND
University of Maryland—Baltimore County
Baltimore, MD
410/455-3223
http://ehs.umbc.edu


NEBRASKA
Creighton University
Omaha, NE
402/280-1285
www2.creighton.edu/ems
NEW MEXICO
University of New Mexico
Albuquerque, NM
505/272-5757
http://hsc.unm.edu/som/emsacad/alspage.shtml
NORTH CAROLINA
Western Carolina University
Cullowhee, NC
828/227-7113
http://emc.wcu.edu
OHIO
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio
330/941-1426
http://bchhs.ysu.edu/dhp/dhp.html
PENNSYLVANIA
Drexel University
Philadelphia, PA
215/762-3732
www.drexel.edu/catalog/ug/cnhp/ems-bs-index.htm
Universityof Pittsburgh
Emergency Medicine Program
School of Health and Rehabilitation Science
Pittsburgh. PA
412/647-4547
www.shrs.pitt.edu/CMS/Departments/EM.asp
TEXAS
Universityof Texas Health Science
Lance Villers Center at San Antonio
San Antonio, TX
210/567-8746
www.uthscsa.edu/emt/htm/ehs.htm
WASHINGTON
Central Washington University
Ellensburg, WA
509/963-1911
www.cwu.edu/~hhpn/paramedics.html
 
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