Duty to Act Info

[589661]

thats very interesting. does this mean when your on duty returning from the hospital not in your coverage zone?

 

[BLSBoy]

If you are paid, from the moment you clock in.
Volly, I would state that anytime you are in an anbulance, the building, or in a piece of uniform.
Your mileage may vary. I advise contacting a lawyer.

 

[EMDispatch]

I figured this is appropriate to post here since it hasn't been posted yet. In Pennsylvania BLS and ALS providers aren't covered under the Medical good Samaritan civil immunity, but they are covered under Nonmedical good Samaritan civil immunity.

8332. Nonmedical Good Samaritan civil immunity

(a) General rule.--Any person who renders emergency care, first aid or rescue at the scene of an emergency, or moves the person receiving such care, first aid and rescue to a hospital or other place of medical care, shall not be liable to such person for any civil damages as a result of any acts or omissions in rendering the emergency care, first aid or rescue, or moving the person receiving the same to a hospital or other place of medical care, except any acts or omissions intentionally designed to harm or any grossly negligent acts or omissions which result in harm to the person receiving the emergency care, first aid or rescue or being moved to a hospital or other place of medical care.

b) Exceptions.--
1. This section shall not relieve a driver of an ambulance or other emergency or rescue vehicle from liability arising from operation or use of such vehicle
2. In order for any person to receive the benefit of the exemption from civil liability provided for in subsection (a), he shall be, at the time of rendering the emergency care, first aid or rescue or moving the person receiving emergency care, first aid or rescue to a hospital or other place of medical care, the holder of a current certificate evidencing the successful completion of a course in first aid, advanced life saving or basic life support sponsored by the American National Red Cross or the American Heart Association or an equivalent course of instruction approved by the Department of Health in consultation with a technical committee of the Pennsylvania Emergency Health Services Council and must be performing techniques and employing procedures consistent with the nature and level of the training for which the certificate has been issued.

 

[FrostbiteMedic]

TN Duty to Act

In TN, when we are off-duty, we do not have a duty to act unless we TOUCH the patient. However, being off-duty in Tennessee means that we cannot be receiving compensation for our time. Ergo, if you are working at walmart and have an active EMT-IV license and a person was to fall out in front of you right after you clocked in to work, then at that point you have a duty to act. In other words, you DO NOT have the be receiving compensation as an EMT, just receiving compensation period.

 

[jjesusfreak01]

In TN, when we are off-duty, we do not have a duty to act unless we TOUCH the patient. However, being off-duty in Tennessee means that we cannot be receiving compensation for our time. Ergo, if you are working at walmart and have an active EMT-IV license and a person was to fall out in front of you right after you clocked in to work, then at that point you have a duty to act. In other words, you DO NOT have the be receiving compensation as an EMT, just receiving compensation period.

You sure that's the way it's worded, because I would be willing to bet giving medical care at an EMT level is probably totally against Walmart policy? In this case, your compensation would be totally unconnected with your current actions, even to the point of putting your job at stake.

 

[TransportJockey]

You sure that's the way it's worded, because I would be willing to bet giving medical care at an EMT level is probably totally against Walmart policy? In this case, your compensation would be totally unconnected with your current actions, even to the point of putting your job at stake.

Don't let anyone know you're an EMT and don't help anyone. Problem solved I sure would never get involved in a medical emergency if I was working someplace like WM. Most I'd do is call 911

 

[FrostbiteMedic]

You sure that's the way it's worded, because I would be willing to bet giving medical care at an EMT level is probably totally against Walmart policy? In this case, your compensation would be totally unconnected with your current actions, even to the point of putting your job at stake.

Pretty sure about it. Even asked my wife's boss to take a look at it as a hypothetical situation (my wife is a paralegal) and that is the way he said the law reads. You can only render care to a first responder level, unless you have protocols that cover you (don't break out those large bore IVs now, even though it would be fun lol). Anyways, I had a situation where I was working a part time gig at walmart and had someone DFO in front of me, and I rendered assistance till the truck got there. I worked full time for that service though. Never had a problem with WM griping about it.

 

[jjesusfreak01]

Don't let anyone know you're an EMT and don't help anyone. Problem solved I sure would never get involved in a medical emergency if I was working someplace like WM. Most I'd do is call 911

Yeah JT, you have made it quite clear you would never under any circumstance stop to help someone off duty...we get it.

 

[rescue329]

Alabama

I have looked and asked several people before, in Alabama if you advertise yourself as a provider (the super hero volunteer stickers on vehicles) you have a duty but beyond that no, truthfully if im not get paid im not getting involved unless there are some circumstances that i feel are warranted

 

[westcoastmedic]

I've read quite a few of these posts regarding the Duty to Act Laws and have come to the following conclusion... Whether or not you are protected by any sort of laws, you should always remember why you started in this profession (at least most of you). It was for the satisfaction of getting to help someone, to save a life, or just make a positive difference in someone's life. It sure wasn't to make millions otherwise you would have joined the MLB. If it was one of your family members lying on the side of the highway wouldn’t you hope that if an EMS provider randomly driving by would render care? Remember the "Golden Hour of Survival"? It starts with early access. Regardless of being on or off duty if you never act then you will never be able to achieve what you joined this profession for.

 

[reaper]

I've read quite a few of these posts regarding the Duty to Act Laws and have come to the following conclusion... Whether or not you are protected by any sort of laws, you should always remember why you started in this profession (at least most of you). It was for the satisfaction of getting to help someone, to save a life, or just make a positive difference in someone's life. It sure wasn't to make millions otherwise you would have joined the MLB. If it was one of your family members lying on the side of the highway wouldn’t you hope that if an EMS provider randomly driving by would render care? Remember the "Golden Hour of Survival"? It starts with early access. Regardless of being on or off duty if you never act then you will never be able to achieve what you joined this profession for.

The "Golden Hour" is a myth and joke. I still have a family to go home to. The minimal help I can provide to someone, without equipment, is not worth risking my life for. Most accident scenes are not safe to be on. That is why you have large trucks to block scenes! A dead provider cannot help anyone!

 

[westcoastmedic]

Well it is obvious that your training “just enough" is also an accurate assessment of your EMS knowledge. As a healthcare provider safety is always the number one priority and on that note no one is saying to put yourself at risk while providing care and any experienced healthcare provider knows that time is of the utmost importance in a critical situation. An example for those less understanding of where I’m going with this is a stroke patient. It is a fact that there is a time limit in which thrombolytics can be given to stroke patients, hence every minute counts. Maybe with such a low level of training not rendering care is best for both parties in your case.

 

[reaper]

You are saying that we should stop at every accident scene on a highway to render care. No they should not. The majority of scenes are unsafe and will continue to be even after EMS and Fire are on scene. But they have the correct tools to provide the safest scene they can.

Let me give you a hint! My knowledge, experience and time in this field, is greatly more then yours. I can guarantee it!

If you are going to give a time sensitive example, I would have expected you to use a trauma, not a stroke. A CVA is time sensitive, but not in minutes. I do not know how behind they are out there, but I have a 4.5 hour window for a stroke pt to receive thrombolytics. That is an average. One hospital is using multiple treatments that can extend that window to 16 hours. So next time pick something that is a little more time sensitive. Like a Pelvic fx or a disected Aorta. Then minutes would count.

Anything where minutes count in an MVC, I as a provider with no equipment or ambulance, can do nothing to make a difference for that pt. I do stop at some scenes, if they are safe. But I pass a lot up. My goal whether on or off duty is to come home to my family.

The one thing you have right in your original post, is the fear of litigation. New providers are scared to death of something that rarely happens. It is instilled in them by stupid teachers, most that have no experience to give.

 

[westcoastmedic]

I guess you cant' teach an old dog new tricks... Nobody is saying to go out there and play Ricky Rescue. Everybody has a family that they want to make it home to, you surprisingly aren't the only one.

 

[Sasha]

Well it is obvious that your training “just enough" is also an accurate assessment of your EMS knowledge. As a healthcare provider safety is always the number one priority and on that note no one is saying to put yourself at risk while providing care and any experienced healthcare provider knows that time is of the utmost importance in a critical situation. An example for those less understanding of where I’m going with this is a stroke patient. It is a fact that there is a time limit in which thrombolytics can be given to stroke patients, hence every minute counts. Maybe with such a low level of training not rendering care is best for both parties in your case.

For your information, reaper has been a paramedic for years. He doesn't have "such a low level" of training.

You can teach an old dog new tricks, but you can't teach an old dog outdated myths and legends.

I am as much of a bleeding heart as any, ask anyone on this forum. I got into EMS not only because I enjoy medicine but because I have a compulsion to help people. But I'm smart enough to know that even with big blinking trucks and bright orange cones and traffic vests you can still be killed on the side of the road. I also know that the minute I am killed I can no longer help anyone, infact I make the situation worse by adding to the patient count and requiring more resources.

I also have an obligation to my family to come home every night, as does reaper. And as reaper is MY family, I do care if he comes home every night and would be very pissed at him if he cost me my family for some person who is going to die anyway. (although I hear there is a nice life insurance policy... )

If you have a situation where minutes count, guess what? They're dead anyway. Don't pull the c-spine BS, because that's been proven to be a myth too. Immobilization has been proven to be more harmful than good.

If you're such a knowledgeable and experienced medic, what did they teach you the very first day in EMT school? Your safety is MOST important.

 

[C.T.E.M.R.]

.

If you're such a knowledgeable and experienced medic, what did they teach you the very first day in EMT school? Your safety is MOST important.

Even certs under EMT, Scene safety is one of the most important terms drilled into our heads. Seriously, unless i have LE or some traffic control on scene, i don't consider it safe, unless we have a patient with an immediate life threat. I hate to sound cruel, but my safety comes first.

 

[Sasha]

Even certs under EMT, Scene safety is one of the most important terms drilled into our heads. Seriously, unless i have LE or some traffic control on scene, i don't consider it safe, unless we have a patient with an immediate life threat. I hate to sound cruel, but my safety comes first.

Exactly. Our lives aren't somehow less important because we have a passion for EMS. We are not more expendable. We still have people who will love and miss us if we get ourselves killed for a stranger who dies anyway.

Someone who is already hurt or injured is not worth risking my life for on a dangerous traffic scene.

 

[westcoastmedic]

Once again for the slower ones...Scene safety and your own safety is every providers #1 priority!!! Nobody is saying to put your own life at risk, when did I say to do that? Or when did I say that it is a good to respond to a mvc w/out the proper equipment? Who doesn't want to make it home to their families? Please read each entry through its entirety before posting fruitless comments.

 

[Sasha]

I've read the entire post. I've read where you talked down to reaper because he doesn't agree to stopping at every scene.

 

[samiam]

Michigan

In Michigan, EMT's Paramedics ect have no duty to act and are also covered under good Samaritan laws ON duty and OFF Duty.

http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(S(1s...=on&highlight=immunity AND from AND liability