Drug screening for EMS cert/school

[Shatha]

I was surprised by how many people in this topic were so against it. 'thatjeffguy' has got it right. Marijuana is just a plant. I dont think of it as a drug. Its standed the test of time, its a financial burden to keep fighting it, and its not lethal.

Its funny, I see posts saying "a few beers to wind down off duty im not concerned about"

Im wondering how weed is any different? Do people know that you can smoke just a little and not be completely out of your mind baked? Just like 1 beer wont get you wasted.

There are dozens other reasons to legalize it, and not so many to keep it illegal. I believe once more people from my generation are in positions to make changes its gunna happen. /2cents

 

[Sandog]

I was surprised by how many people in this topic were so against it. 'thatjeffguy' has got it right. Marijuana is just a plant. I dont think of it as a drug. Its standed the test of time, its a financial burden to keep fighting it, and its not lethal.

Its funny, I see posts saying "a few beers to wind down off duty im not concerned about"

Im wondering how weed is any different? Do people know that you can smoke just a little and not be completely out of your mind baked? Just like 1 beer wont get you wasted.

There are dozens other reasons to legalize it, and not so many to keep it illegal. I believe once more people from my generation are in positions to make changes its gunna happen. /2cents

FYI, opium is made from a plant as well, Poppy. Some plants are dangerous neural toxins. Being a plant does not make it is safe, after all look at tobacco.

 

[framework4]

I believe once more people from my generation are in positions to make changes its gunna happen.

LOL, I've been hearng that line since I was a teen (1970s). What is overlooked is that those of each generation who do move in to "positions to make changes" are not those who are also Marijuana users and by the time they reach power they don't believe Marijuana is a harmless alternative to alcohol.

 

[mcdonl]

Get off the dope. You will end up fat and lazy.

Don't drink either. It will make you even fatter and miserable.

Dont even get me started about "chew" and cigs.....

 

[Shatha]

Being a plant does not make it is safe, after all look at tobacco.

Except it IS safe. Not one single documented death. Tobacco and Opium..not so much.

As far as Framework's post, the west coast has already started decriminalization and forms of legalization in medicinal marijuana. I believe about 10 states currently allow "green cards" and have med. marijuana shops. It is only a matter of time before it makes its way east. Im positive were going to add more states before we take them away. The wheels are in motion, the process just needs to come full circle.

And people, weed doesnt make you stupid. Ignorance does.

Edit: Id also just like to point out that in the 70's the "War on Drugs" was still a new campaign. Marijuana was lumped into the hardcore/gateway drug category. Nowadays the public is much more educated on its effects and were realizing that it doesnt turn you into an axe murder or make you go insane as people like Anslinger insisted it did.

 

[mcdonl]

It is already legal in Maine...

BUT... that does not mean it is right. There is a reason why it is called being stoned. And why you are a stoner if you get stoned on a regular basis.

You can talk it up as being safe and healthy all you want but it is a) a carcinogen b) a mind altering substance that while your HIGH makes it so you CANNOT do your job and c) is comes with all of the other joys that go along with trafficking illegal drugs. It is not all grown in your back yard. There are big fields, with guys with guns and machetes that kill people as a part of their business.

And I bet if you look deep enough plenty of MVA's and other accidents were a result of some stoner paying more attention to his ren and stimpy action figure than driving.

 

[JPINFV]

You can talk it up as being safe and healthy all you want but it is a) a carcinogen b) a mind altering substance that while your HIGH makes it so you CANNOT do your job and c) is comes with all of the other joys that go along with trafficking illegal drugs. It is not all grown in your back yard. There are big fields, with guys with guns and machetes that kill people as a part of their business.

It would be safe to assume that you don't drink alcohol?

 

[Shatha]

In my opinion thats very judgmental. But to each there own.

Id like to go back to my point on alcoholics. Youre an alcoholic if you get wasted on a regular basis. In moderate amounts, alcohol is just fine. Just like if you hit that joint one time youre not going to be nearly as high as if you smoked the whole thing to yourself.

Im saying its safe but im not saying its healthy. By that I mean everytime you smoke, yes youre doing damage to your lungs. What I mean by safe is that if you smoke 1lb in a day its not going to kill you, and obviously that wouldnt be healthy.

a) carcinogen. Yes. However there are several different forms of consumption besides smoke which im sure you know.

b) mind altering. Yes. But go back to beer. Youre not gunna come to work wasted off 20 beers just like you shouldnt come to work high as the devil. Theres a time and a place. It should be done in your free time safely that doesnt interfere with your responsibilities as an adult.

c)Drug trafficking. Yes. Whenever I debate with someone on legalization one of my biggest points is that the crime rate would plummet. We wont need to go to the ghetto or some shady parking lot anymore if we can just get it at the store.

 

[mcdonl]

It would be safe to assume that you don't drink alcohol?

Yes. I used to, but I had a close family member who had an issue with it so as a show of solidarity I quit.

 

[mcdonl]

In my opinion thats very judgmental. But to each there own.

I prefer subjective

 

[JPINFV]

Yes. I used to, but I had a close family member who had an issue with it so as a show of solidarity I quit.

The reason I asked is because all three of those points (well, C during prohibition, but there are still moonshiners out there) could be just as easily be said about alcohol, which is what I've always found funny about this argument. One set of vice is bad, but another vice which is pretty much just as equally bad (and, for the record, alcohol is the gateway drug) is illegal.

 

[mcdonl]

I used to smoke pot.

And, I think it is an informed opinion when I state that people who smoke pot are way more likley to take a puff or two on the way out the door to go to work. Not saying it would happen in EMS, and not saying I would ever do it but I know that in the past I would not think twice about taking a poke before going to do something I didnt really want to do. Wash my hands, brush my teeth, throw in some visene and splash on some brut and no one was the wiser.

Thats what scares me about it.

 

[rbromme]

I personally do not care what people put in their bodies. I believe natural selection has been hurt by all of the rules and regulations people are supposed to follow already. My only issue with legalizing pot is that it can not be tested for like alcohol can. If they had a test like a breathalyzer for it, then I would have no issue as long as the punishment for being under the influence was at least as harsh as DUI/DWI are. The fact that the magic all-natural feel good plant will effect your reaction time, perception and judgment makes it not safe when used when you are doing something that can cause damage to others. For that reason alone, I do not support it being legalized.

 

[jjesusfreak01]

I personally do not care what people put in their bodies. I believe natural selection has been hurt by all of the rules and regulations people are supposed to follow already. My only issue with legalizing pot is that it can not be tested for like alcohol can. If they had a test like a breathalyzer for it, then I would have no issue as long as the punishment for being under the influence was at least as harsh as DUI/DWI are. The fact that the magic all-natural feel good plant will effect your reaction time, perception and judgment makes it not safe when used when you are doing something that can cause damage to others. For that reason alone, I do not support it being legalized.

Actually, we destroy natural selection. If a person decides to follow rules, that is one thing, but EMS and hospitals keep people alive with advanced technology when natural selection would just as soon have them die.

 

[notmeofficer]

I personally feel that every EMS agency should do drug screens. We can debate about the decriminalization of marijuana to the grave, but the bottom line is this: I don't want a stoner answering my EMS calls. I don't want a stoner operating an emergency vehicle. Whether is marijuana or vicodin or any other opiate/benzo, these chemicals are not conducive to the proper function of a professional, compassionate emergency medical technician.

well said...

THC remains in the body along with legal drugs.. I don't want a partner on anything that MIGHT impair their ability..legal illegal,, it doesn't matter..

you want to alter yourself.. try another profession... all this touchy feely garbage dances around the issue....

be an example not a potential concern

Right now in California we are seeing a huge influx of downgrading of emts to first responder.. and new potential emts only becoming first responders because of criminal backgrounds (currently not done on first responders)

great.. work with a crook and a doper,, what next

we are losing focus folks.. drug/alcohol use ..legal or otherwise... certainly doesnt help

 

[Smash]

THC remains in the body along with legal drugs.. I don't want a partner on anything that MIGHT impair their ability..legal illegal,, it doesn't matter.

I presume that means you won't work with anyone who takes OTC medications containing codiene for their back pain, or anti-histamines for their allergies, or anti-depressants for their depression, or sedatives like the Z-drugs because they stuggle with 2 or 3 jobs and shift work to pay the bills?

great.. work with a crook and a doper,, what next

I have two suggestions: 1) a reasoned and sensible discussion of the issue minus the emotive, biased nonsense as above and 2) a short course in English.

 

[notmeofficer]

I presume that means you won't work with anyone who takes OTC medications containing codiene for their back pain, or anti-histamines for their allergies, or anti-depressants for their depression, or sedatives like the Z-drugs because they stuggle with 2 or 3 jobs and shift work to pay the bills?



I have two suggestions: 1) a reasoned and sensible discussion of the issue minus the emotive, biased nonsense as above and 2) a short course in English.

Please note spelling Sir... Codeine,, struggle.. if any person chooses be the example here.. then be just that..perfect Sir..

Don't personalize stuff.. I will try my best not to.. the forum requires it... my "biases" come from a lifetime of professional service.. not so much as biases but more a clear understanding of policies and procedures that work.. and those that don't.

And no..I personally don't want to work with someone under the influence of drugs that affect their motor sensory reactions... the vehicle code does not allow for it as a commercial driver.. Ill have to check if a California ambulance driver license has the similar restriction..I cant remember off the top off my head..I believe it does. Anyone can be arrested for any substance that impairs their ability to drive.. in the case of California there is a zero limit.

I would tell you this.. have an accident with drugs on board.. no way.. it would be the "preventable' part of the accident and both the offender and employer would be on the hook.. the same thing would happen in the case of any "mistake" Think a good attorney wouldn't have an easier burden of proof involving a person who uses drugs and provides medical care to others and makes a mistake ?.. think again.. they will have that person for lunch.. and rightly so... think an employer wants the liability of an altered employee?.. NO WAY... that is why they drug test all the time.. Perhaps you might read the concept of negligence again... and how we are held to standards of care. Does anyone believe for one second their EMSA would approve of care providers certified by them being under the influence? Another self-evident answer.

I teach and use the adage... "provide care like it's to your own mother".. you want someone "altered" working on your family member?.. the answer is self evident.

Some people just aren't cut out for public safety.. they want "accommodations".. I say crap to that..go work at Mc Donalds.. oh wait.. doesn't McD's drug test?... I don't want someone whose life is such that they aren't focused on what they are doing providing care.. if they are working two or three jobs they should consider a different lifestyle..perhaps one that doesn't have people's existence in their hands. We also have an obligation to each other.. to NOT be altered in anyway that affects our ability to perform. drugs alter us.. that's what they do.. stay home if they affect your ability to perform in anyway.

We have to be right all the time and when we aren't and the public looks at us.. think they want to know we are using drugs while we provide service?.. I don't think so. If a provider is hurting so much they have to be on pain meds they shouldn't be working anyway..all they are is a liability.. want them lifting a gurney with you?.. in a vehicle extrication with you?.. you have got to be kidding..that's not accommodation that's plain ridiculous.

Our jobs are arduous classification jobs... not office jobs where another person's life is in your hands...

This is a weird thread.. I think everyone already knows whats right.. just some people, again, want to be accommodated for abhorrent behaviors.

 

[Smash]

Well spotted, I shall avoid using my iPhone and fat thumbs to type from now on. Maybe I should use some random and inappropriate punctuation too, people might enjoy that more:;';;./

And no..I personally don't want to work with someone under the influence of drugs that affect their motor sensory reactions...

So in all seriousness, if your partner turned up one spring day with red and itchy eyes and a runny nose from their allergies playing up, and you saw them take an anti-histamine, what would you do? Refuse to run jobs with them? Report them? Call the police to have them arrested for operating a vehicle while impaired?

think they want to know we are using drugs while we provide service?.. I don't think so. If a provider is hurting so much they have to be on pain meds they shouldn't be working anyway..all they are is a liability.. want them lifting a gurney with you?.. in a vehicle extrication with you?.. you have got to be kidding..that's not accommodation that's plain ridiculous.

And this is why it is all but impossible for anyone to have a reasoned discussion on this subject. If you seriously consider that someone who has a sore back, or maybe a twinge in the shoulder should not be allowed to work rather than take an OTC pain medication, it is clearly pointless in trying to discuss anything at an adult level. Equating OTC medication for common minor ailments with smoking marijuana is indeed ridiculous.