Drug screening for EMS cert/school

[rescue99]

I am all for medical marijuana but if one is just a stoner and has to smoke pot just to get through the day, they are of little use to EMS. Other professionals are held responsible for their behavior. Why should EMS be the poor pathetic ones that everyone should cut some slack? Could it be because some do give off the impression of being exactly as you described rather than that of a health care professional?

Also, if you smoke cigarettes, you are not going to work for many FDs, EMS companies, hospitals or a whole lot of other employers.

Cigarettes aren't altering any more than being addicted to ice cream is...unless the two have brain freeze in common. On the other hand, ice cream doesn't leave a stink on everything it comes in contact with like tobacco does. <_<

On the more serious side; no state is going to issue an EMS license to a candidate who requires mary-jane to function. Not even the Americans with Disability Act can support a person under the influence of a medication with a high potential for creating an unsafe situation for the worker or those around him/her. No employer is required to keep such an employee either.

 

[VentMedic]

Cigarettes aren't altering any more than being addicted to ice cream is...unless the two have brain freeze in common. On the other hand, ice cream doesn't leave a stink on everything it comes in contact with like tobacco does. <_<

Cigarettes may not put one in at altered state as marijuana does but they do have demonstrated physiological effects if used regularly.

Ever hear of the Heart and Lung Act?

 

[rescue99]

Cigarettes may not put one in at altered state as marijuana does but they do have demonstrated physiological effects if used regularly.

Ever hear of the Heart and Lung Act?

Not an argument Vent. Relax. Take some slow, deep breaths. Unwind....Life is wayyyyyy too short to be so tense all the time. Stress will do as much or more harm to the human body than a lousy cigarette will I'd much rather deal with a mellow smoker than someone who explodes / implodes from being so over stressed.

Ewwww... the above sounds like a commercial for smoking. :wacko:

 

[Griff]

Not an argument Vent. Relax. Take some slow, deep breaths. Unwind....Life is wayyyyyy too short to be so tense all the time. Stress will do as much or more harm to the human body than a lousy cigarette will I'd much rather deal with a mellow smoker than someone who explodes / implodes from being so over stressed.

Ewwww... the above sounds like a commercial for smoking. :wacko:

Lol "4 out of 5 medics agree..."

 

[VentMedic]

Not an argument Vent. Relax. Take some slow, deep breaths. Unwind....Life is wayyyyyy too short to be so tense all the time. Stress will do as much or more harm to the human body than a lousy cigarette will I'd much rather deal with a mellow smoker than someone who explodes / implodes from being so over stressed.

Ewwww... the above sounds like a commercial for smoking. :wacko:

I guess that answers my question. You have never heard of the Heart and Lung Act. But then you probably aren't involved in any Public Safety occupation either and probably won't be if you smoke.

 

[eveningsky339]

I guess that answers my question. You have never heard of the Heart and Lung Act. But then you probably aren't involved in any Public Safety occupation either and probably won't be if you smoke.

I happen to disagree with the regular use of tobacco, but within the context of this thread, I'd rather have a chain-smoking EMT-B than a paramedic who thinks he needs to get stoned in order to sleep, or whatever half-baked excuse one needs in order to justify recreational use of illegal narcotics.

 

[VentMedic]

I happen to disagree with the regular use of tobacco, but within the context of this thread, I'd rather have a chain-smoking EMT-B than a paramedic who thinks he needs to get stoned in order to sleep, or whatever half-baked excuse one needs in order to justify recreational use of illegal narcotics.

You are entitled to your opinion. Just don't plan on getting hired by many FDs, PDs or some hospitals. Most of our FDs require someone to be smoke free for at least one year prior to hire.

I also stated my opinion about people who must be stoned each day when it is not for medical reasons.

 

[mycrofft]

This wasn't supposed to be a debate about pot legalization, was it? Or was it?

Let me drop three and bow out.
1. I live and work near the capitol of Califoahneeah, and the street circus that emerges to speak in favor of legalizing medical dope is embarassing.
2. I see legalization occurring in my lifetime because the cultural bias is so strong in favor of licensed use and the effects of enforcement so expensive and ruinous to convictees.
3. I don't like working around folks who exhibit the effects of any drug, but the side effect of paranoid self-agrandizement which seems to atach itself to marijuana use just plain ticks me off (aplogies to those present).

Oh yeah, four.
"Wanting to be mellow is like wanting to be senile".
Randy Newman

 

[eveningsky339]

You are entitled to your opinion. Just don't plan on getting hired by many FDs, PDs or some hospitals. Most of our FDs require someone to be smoke free for at least one year prior to hire.

No worries, I've never even held a pack in my hands.

I also stated my opinion about people who must be stoned each day when it is not for medical reasons.

I know, I read your opinion, and I tend to agree. EMS is no place for people who smoke marijuana outside of medical reasons.

 

[thatJeffguy]

No worries, I've never even held a pack in my hands.


I know, I read your opinion, and I tend to agree. EMS is no place for people who smoke marijuana outside of medical reasons.

What about people who use EtOH?

 

[VentMedic]

What about people who use EtOH?

At this time, alcohol is still legal. However, if it interferes with your work or becomes a problem, then the state issuing your license may mandate that you seek counseling along with periodic testing or revoke your license totally.

If you are buying illegal drugs and doing what the state considers to be illegal activity, then you should face the consequences. I would hope you are old enough and mature enough to know the difference between legal and illegal. If you have a problem with marijuana being illegal, change the law through the proper legislation. Until then, you should be expected to obey the law.

 

[mycrofft]

Ah, ETOH, I'll come back for that.

Show up hung over or drunk, suspended on the spot. Second offense: fired, or if exceptional factors are involved, diversion to treatment and polish/clean the equip. But off the rigs.

 

[thatJeffguy]

If you are buying illegal drugs and doing what the state considers to be illegal activity, then you should face the consequences. I would hope you are old enough and mature enough to know the difference between legal and illegal. If you have a problem with marijuana being illegal, change the law through the proper legislation. Until then, you should be expected to obey the law.

And in California, where the state provides exceptions for medical usage? Is that ok?

 

[Shishkabob]

What specific federal law would be violated by possession of a quarter ounce of marijuana, in California, with a prescription?

Don't know... that's a question for you to ask the DEA, who can, have, and will, arrest people who violate the law, "state sanctioned" or not. Federal law trumps state law. Every. Single. Time.





Any and every argument for "medicinal" marijuana is from a person who just wants to smoke pot. There is absolutely NO benefit to smoking marijuana (illegal) over using prescription THC (legal). On top of that, the FDA has NEVER cleared a drug for medicinal use by smoking it.

There are PLENTY of legal drugs that do the exact same things that marijuana is purported to do. Why do you insist in doing it illegally?


Quit hiding behind the wall of "it's for a medical use" when that can be debunked quite easily.

 

[thatJeffguy]

Don't know... that's a question for you to ask the DEA, who can, have, and will, arrest people who violate the law, "state sanctioned" or not. Federal law trumps state law. Every. Single. Time.

Oh, I see. And the Tenth Amendment, that's just irrelevant? Can you show me where that was struck down? Or, perhaps, where the Constitution was amended so that the FEDGOV was the deciding factor in what substances you put in your body? Don't bother with the LAWS (such as the Drug, Device and Cosmetic Act) as they're quite invalid without Constitutional change.

Of course, we've also got the issue of the Federal Government, brace yourself, being incorrect. Do you feel, I'm asking for your opinion not a parroting of some LEO you might know, that marijuana and opium are on the same level of lethality and addictive potential?

Any and every argument for "medicinal" marijuana is from a person who just wants to smoke pot.

It must be nice to not have cancer, not have AIDS and make blanket statements against entire groups of people. I bet most of those people just went out and GOT cancer so they could smoke dope! I mean, what's more pleasurable than vomiting up your meals and being able to smoke grass! Man, I wish I had advanced leukemia so I could smoke pot!

You need to obtain some serious life experiences, your blanket statements at your age smacks of ignorance.

There is absolutely NO benefit to smoking marijuana (illegal) over using prescription THC (legal). On top of that, the FDA has NEVER cleared a drug for medicinal use by smoking it.

When a patient gives you "informed consent", what do you do? Beat them over the head until they do the medical treatement you want them to do? Call in the SWAT team to toss in some flashbangs and rock out with full ninja-gear? I didn't think so. So why is it that a patient can't make informed choices about their own health care and about what plant they choose to smoke? I'm sure you'll fall back on the "It's illegal!" answer, but I just don't care one bit. Illegal and immoral aren't always the same concept.

Without harping on about what some hard-nosed cop told you, tell me why you feel patients shouldn't be allowed to make their own decisions as to how they ingest a plant that grows wild.

There are PLENTY of legal drugs that do the exact same things that marijuana is purported to do. Why do you insist in doing it illegally?

Why do you insist on making it illegal? I mean, come on here buddy, this isn't the Anslinger Era! We know that smoking dope won't make men grow breasts! Don't you think that legislation passed at a time of public hysteria over the "DEMON WEED" that, according to Henry Anslinger, did make men grow breasts and encouraged violent actions needs to be reviewed? Why do you feel the need to dictate to someone what plant they may or may not smoke? What skin is it off of your nose if someone decides to smoke a bong in their own home, instead of taking Marinol? Are you just that into being a busy body that you can't let others make their own decisions? That mentality has no place in health care, period.

Quit hiding behind the wall of "it's for a medical use" when that can be debunked quite easily.

I couldnt' care less if it's for "medical" use. I think individuals have the right to smoke the same plant that the Founding Fathers grew in their own gardens. Tell me, why is marijuana illegal but alcohol isn't?

 

[Summit]

Don't know... that's a question for you to ask the DEA, who can, have, and will, arrest people who violate the law, "state sanctioned" or not. Federal law trumps state law. Every. Single. Time.

Not. Any. More. So. Stow. Your. Jackboots. And. Check. Your. Facts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/us/19holder.html

Any and every argument for "medicinal" marijuana is from a person who just wants to smoke pot. There is absolutely NO benefit to smoking marijuana (illegal) over using prescription THC (legal). On top of that, the FDA has NEVER cleared a drug for medicinal use by smoking it.

There are PLENTY of legal drugs that do the exact same things that marijuana is purported to do. Why do you insist in doing it illegally?


Quit hiding behind the wall of "it's for a medical use" when that can be debunked quite easily.

Yes, I think that smoking will never be an approved method by the FDA and with good reason, but you in one sentece say "why not take it PO" and spend the rest of your post intimating that THC is a worthless drug and should be illegal, in which case, you are wrong again.

 

[Sasha]

Cigarettes aren't altering any more than being addicted to ice cream is...unless the two have brain freeze in common. On the other hand, ice cream doesn't leave a stink on everything it comes in contact with like tobacco does.

Boo cigarettes!!! I hate working with smokers. They smell like smoke and contaminate the lungs of those around them! Instead of going out and smoking away from everyone they want to smoke right by you so they can talk!

Boo cigarettes! They should be banned all together.

Found this article interesting.
IOM Says Smoking Bans Reduce Heart Attacks
Full Article:http://www.medpagetoday.com/Pulmonary/Smoking/16451

WASHINGTON -- Bans on smoking in public places could reduce heart attacks and heart disease caused by secondhand smoke, according to a report from the Institute of Medicine (IOM).

The new findings indicate that indoor smoking bans -- which are growing in popularity -- can improve the health of smokers and nonsmokers alike, according to the report, which was prepared for the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

"It's clear that smoking bans work," said Lynn Goldman, MD, of the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, who chaired the IOM committee that wrote the report.

A pivotal 2006 Surgeon General's report found that secondhand smoke causes heart disease and endorsed smoking bans as an economical way to reduce risk.

However, debate remains over what effect smoking bans have on reducing heart

 

[thatJeffguy]

Sasha- I completely agree with you, smoking tobacco is a nasty filthy habit that contaminates not only the smoker's apparel and body but the air surrounding them that we must share. I don't feel it's appropriate to interact with anyone, specifically a patient, while reeking of tobacco smoke. Any substance with the potential for causing "mind altering" effects should be out of one's head by the time they show up for work.

I feel if we got past the Ansliger-era style view of marijuana, and drugs in general, we'd be able to be a bit more objective in our policy regarding them. I think that some substances, MDMA for example, offer potential for theraputic development. However the government bangs the "rave drug" drum loudly and it's soon scheduled so that no real assessment of it can be made. We'll never solve the "drug problem" with more prohibition. Prisons have problems with drugs and they're about the most controlled location you could imagine!

Amazing that policy that was brought into existence during a time when the Chief of the Narcotics Division was convincing parents that males smoking marijuana would cause them to develop breasts still exists. Maybe it's time to reevaluate our position on some things.

 

[rescue99]

Lol "4 out of 5 medics agree..."

Didn't mean to say smoking is a good thing..it stinks up everything and to an already ill feeling person, it's worse. Just meant I'd rather work with a smoker than put up with hostile or down right burned out partner who is long over due for a career change. Just don't smoke near my truck please

 

[Shishkabob]

Not. Any. More. So. Stow. Your. Jackboots. And. Check. Your. Facts.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/19/us/19holder.html

How does that story change a single thing about my statement? The DEA will arrest you if you if you're breaking the law, will they not'?

And federal law trumps state law, does it not?

Yes, I think that smoking will never be an approved method by the FDA and with good reason, but you in one sentece say "why not take it PO" and spend the rest of your post intimating that THC is a worthless drug and should be illegal, in which case, you are wrong again.

I suggest going back and re-reading what I posted, as you obviously mis-interpreted it.


Not once did I say take marijuana PO. And not once did I say THC is worthless. I said there is no benefit to doing the illegal form of THC (smoking marijuana) over doing the legal form of THC.


Anyone arguing for "medicinal" marijuana, and opting not to do the legal form of THC, is in it strictly for the high, period.