Does your company have a policy against this?

[Seaglass]

Why do you not see a safety problem with standing on a road way?

If a person in a car in the far lane offers the person something, do you not think they are going to go for it? How many of these homeless may also be under the influence of some drug/alcohol or mentally impaired?

Did you not learn any type of roadway safety anywhere even in your elementary school education?

It is difficult to enforce these safety rules because well-meaning do gooders keep the handouts coming and encouraging these individuals to put their safety at risk.

You are not doing them any favors by encouraging them to become road kill.

Again, I don't see where anyone's actually standing on the asphalt. Standing on the side isn't a great idea, but it's not like anyone's supposed to be driving there either.

Are they going to go into danger for food? Unlikely. They're pretty good at self-preservation. The ones who are so psychotic they no longer register their physical surroundings are probably not going to want to take whatever someone offers them, if they can even realize it's there. If they're addicts, they'll do anything... if they're being offered money or their substance of choice. Can't say I've seen any Gatorade addicts in group lately.

If you ever show that you have any knowledge of my education, your shots in the dark might actually start hitting. In the meantime, confusing me with Sasha is just making you look bad.

 

[VentMedic]

Again, I don't see where anyone's actually standing on the asphalt. Standing on the side isn't a great idea, but it's not like anyone's supposed to be driving there either.

Are they going to go into danger for food? Unlikely. They're pretty good at self-preservation. The ones who are so psychotic they no longer register their physical surroundings are probably not going to want to take whatever someone offers them, if they can even realize it's there. If they're addicts, they'll do anything... if they're being offered money or their substance of choice. Can't say I've seen any Gatorade addicts in group lately.

If you ever show that you have any knowledge of my education, your shots in the dark might actually start hitting. In the meantime, confusing me with Sasha is just making you look bad.

It doesn't matter what your education is because you are just too naive for your own good or to be judging what is safe.

Do you actually think cars pull up to the curb or get into the lane right next to the person? What about multiple lanes?

Do you believe those with severe psychosis will be aware of their safety and stay at a safe distance from the curb? Have you NEVER see a homeless person dart into traffic?

You said you know about homeless people but obviously have never bothered to see what they must endure...as long as you are in your safe car.

Just google for some headlines about homeless panhandlers killed recently along the road ways. However, most don't make the news because they are no longer considered newsworthy. This is good for people like yourself who can go on believing everything is rosy in the world and there is no danger out there.

I DO LIVE and WORK in a city (actually a couple of cities) where I have ran numerous trauma calls dealing with homeless panhandlers along the highways. I also see them daily in the ICUs. Some have been struck by cars as they waded through traffic. A few have been burnt to a crisp after having a flammable liquid tossed on them and set on fire as they stood in the intersection. Some have had their brains splattered throughout the intersection from objects thrown or extended from passing vehicles. I have responded to a homeless couple who were forced to jump over a guardrail onto the highway below when a car was playing chicken with them at an intersection. Not everyone wants to give the homeless a handout of the friendly kind.

As I have stated in this thread and several others, I want to see the homeless get help or find food and shelter in a safe place. That means not panhandling in an unsafe area. They are free to panhandle in front of Macy's where the risk is less. They can go to a soup kitchen for food. I will not ever encourage one to put their life in danger if there is a better way.

As long as you and others continue to look the other way or justify your own behavior, they will continue to risk being on that intersection waiting for you to come along with a handout.

 

[MSDeltaFlt]

Wow. 7 pages in 16hrs. What started out as a mole hill, to reach the top, one would be far beyond their vertical limit.

 

[VentMedic]

Wow. 7 pages in 16hrs. What started out as a mole hill, to reach the top, one would be far beyond their vertical limit.

Homelessness is a serious subject and it is unfortunate that the EMS certificates are not long enough to address social and economics issues. Actually, the public safety side is also not addressed or at a very watered down and misleading level.

It is one thing to say you want to help the homeless but it is something else to know how to help them and keep them from being harmed or harming others. While your heart might be in the right place, the way you choose to go about helping someone may not be.

 

[usafmedic45]

Are they going to go into danger for food? Unlikely.

I'm siding with Vent on this one because she has a very valid point. They can, will and do endanger themselves.

However, most don't make the news because they are no longer considered newsworthy.

When I worked as a deputy coroner we had three in a month that darted into traffic and were struck by cars trying to get to someone offering them something. Not a single one even made any of the local newspapers or the television news. So, yes, they don't think clearly and that does not require mental illness. A moment's inattention- as we're all well aware- can find you as someone's new hood ornament regardless of whether you're a bum or a noble EMT with a heart of gold.

A few have been burnt to a crisp after having a flammable liquid tossed on them and set on fire as they stood in the intersection.

Wow....that's really :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing sick. I may not like the homeless but that's just wrong.

It doesn't matter what your education is because you are just too naive for your own good or to be judging what is safe.

Vent, careful now.....this has been a civil discussion thus far. Let's try to keep it that way. No one need to go there.

 

[Seaglass]

It doesn't matter what your education is because you are just too naive for your own good or to be judging what is safe.

Then why go after it in the first place? Likewise, I'll care about how naive you think I am when you know about my life.

Do you actually think cars pull up to the curb or get into the lane right next to the person? What about multiple lanes?

Do you believe those with severe psychosis will be aware of their safety and stay at a safe distance from the curb? Have you NEVER see a homeless person dart into traffic?

Of course I have. Never because they were going to grab something someone was offering them from a car.

You said you know about homeless people but obviously have never bothered to see what they must endure...as long as you are in your safe car.

Just google for some headlines about homeless panhandlers killed recently along the road ways. However, most don't make the news because they are no longer considered newsworthy. This is good for people like yourself who can go on believing everything is rosy in the world and there is no danger out there.

I DO LIVE and WORK in a city (actually a couple of cities) where I have ran numerous trauma calls dealing with homeless panhandlers along the highways. I also see them daily in the ICUs. Some have been struck by cars as they waded through traffic. A few have been burnt to a crisp after having a flammable liquid tossed on them and set on fire as they stood in the intersection. Some have had their brains splattered throughout the intersection from objects thrown or extended from passing vehicles. I have responded to a homeless couple who were forced to jump over a guardrail onto the highway below when a car was playing chicken with them at an intersection. Not everyone wants to give the homeless a handout of the friendly kind.

How would it be possible for me to work in shelters and in EMS and not see it?

As I have stated in this thread and several others, I want to see the homeless get help or find food and shelter in a safe place. That means not panhandling in an unsafe area. They are free to panhandle in front of Macy's where the risk is less. They can go to a soup kitchen for food. I will not ever encourage one to put their life in danger if there is a better way.

As long as you and others continue to look the other way or justify your own behavior, they will continue to risk being on that intersection waiting for you to come along with a handout.

As you know everything about the population, I'll spare you the lecture on how some of them think that the soup kitchen is run by brainsucking aliens, or how the cops will drive them away from Macy's or the safer parks, or how local governments often make going to the shelter and finding work mutually exclusive.

Meanwhile, you're confusing me with Sasha again. I've never given anything out at an intersection. Haven't said intersections are the safest places to panhandle, either. I simply think that it's naive to think giving or not giving one meal will make a difference in the behavior as a whole. I also think that Sasha doesn't deserve all that bashing for an essentially kind action.

 

[VentMedic]

Then why go after it in the first place? Likewise, I'll care about how naive you think I am when you know about my life.



Of course I have. Never because they were going to grab something someone was offering them from a car.



How would it be possible for me to work in shelters and in EMS and not see it?



As you know everything about the population, I'll spare you the lecture on how some of them think that the soup kitchen is run by brainsucking aliens, or how the cops will drive them away from Macy's or the safer parks, or how local governments often make going to the shelter and finding work mutually exclusive.

Meanwhile, you're confusing me with Sasha again. I've never given anything out at an intersection. Haven't said intersections are the safest places to panhandle, either. I simply think that it's naive to think giving or not giving one meal will make a difference in the behavior as a whole. I also think that Sasha doesn't deserve all that bashing for an essentially kind action.

Why are you so pro play in traffic which is not in the best interest of their safety? You try to come off like you are a big advocate for them but yet seem bent on justifying behavior that can get them harmed or killed.

Are you really that naive about just "one meal"?

I seriously don't believe you are the advocate you think yourself to believe nor do you have enough experience to have seen what the homeless go through. Your posts are clearly demonstrating that. On the other hand, I guess you are doing your part to reduce the homeless population by encouraging unsafe behavior.

Actually if you knew much about the laws and panhandling you would know that some areas are protected by the 1st amendment and that includes in front of Macy's as long as they do not display aggressive behavior.

Brainsucking aliens running soup kitchens? Our soup kitchens are popular and not run by brainsucking aliens. Is this the image you promote which justifies your own behavior?

 

[Seaglass]

Why are you so pro play in traffic which is not in the best interest of their safety? You try to come off like you are a big advocate for them but yet seem bent on justifying behavior that can get them harmed or killed.

Are you really that naive about just "one meal"?

I seriously don't believe you are the advocate you think yourself to believe nor do you have enough experience to have seen what the homeless go through. Your posts are clearly demonstrating that. On the other hand, I guess you are doing your part to reduce the homeless population by encouraging unsafe behavior.

Yep, really. I'm not naive enough to think that one person giving a handout, or one thread on the internet, will change anything. Only fences, or serious laws and enforcement will stop them from sitting on roadsides with signs. In the meantime, people who give stuff to them at red lights rank very low on the list of their concerns.

I'm not an advocate, either. I'm familiar with them and do some work with them. No more, no less.

Actually if you knew much about the laws and panhandling you would know that some areas are protected by the 1st amendment and that includes in front of Macy's as long as they do not display aggressive behavior.

Who said anything about laws? The store asks the cops, and the cops get them to leave. I don't think we have very many anti-loitering or anti-panhandling laws, but nobody's ever challenged the practice, far as I've heard.

Besides, what's to stop the store from claiming they're aggressive?

Brainsucking aliens running soup kitchens? Our soup kitchens are popular and not run by brainsucking aliens. Is this the image you promote which justifies your own behavior?

Our soup kitchens are very popular with those sane enough to attend them... who are rarely the same people you find sitting at intersections during mealtimes, if there's one nearby.

But you've got it pegged--I'm secretly a brainsucking alien. I'm just pretending to be an EMT and work with the homeless online for kicks.

 

[VentMedic]

In the meantime, people who give stuff to them at red lights rank very low on the list of their concerns.

It doesn't mean you have to be the one giving them money and food in traffic areas or condoning those who do.

I'm not an advocate, either. I'm familiar with them and do some work with them. No more, no less.

I advocate for better alternatives for them. Sorry if you care only when convenient for you but I do not want to see them harmed even if I am not always in agreement for their reasons to be where they are. There are many issues here and just a little awareness can make a difference. This is a public forum read by many and sometimes people do pick up some information that at least gives them the motivation to investigate further.

Who said anything about laws? The store asks the cops, and the cops get them to leave. I don't think we have very many anti-loitering or anti-panhandling laws, but nobody's ever challenged the practice, far as I've heard.

I have repeatedly stated laws pertaining to the issues in this thread. If you live and work in an area, one should know at least some of the laws. Sasha was not aware of the law for her area and now she is. The panhandling laws are being challenged in many states right now which is why I mentioned it earlier and continue to mention the 1st amendment which is what they are basing their rights on. Before you spout off stuff as facts, do a little checking first. I already mentioned "google" earlier which is an internet search engine.

And again, think about safety for the panhandler, yourself and those that drive in the area.

 

[Seaglass]

I advocate for better alternatives for them. Sorry if you care only when convenient for you but I do not want to see them harmed even if I am not always in agreement for their reasons to be where they are. There are many issues here and just a little awareness can make a difference. This is a public forum read by many and sometimes people do pick up some information that at least gives them the motivation to investigate further.

Wish I could agree, but I've become very jaded about internet activism and awareness-raising in general. It's all too easy to care online, and rarely does it translate to change in the real world.

Meanwhile, I think answering compassionate real-world actions with rants is very counterproductive. Feedback, sure, but this thread is pretty ridiculous.

I have repeatedly stated laws pertaining to the issues in this thread. If you live and work in an area, one should know at least some of the laws. Sasha was not aware of the law for her area and now she is. The panhandling laws are being challenged in many states right now which is why I mentioned it earlier and continue to mention the 1st amendment which is what they are basing their rights on. Before you spout off stuff as facts, do a little checking first. I already mentioned "google" earlier which is an internet search engine.

And again, think about safety for the panhandler, yourself and those that drive in the area.

"As far as I've heard"=speaking from my own experience, not citing something as fact.

It wasn't a literal question. I was saying it happens here, legal or not, and will likely keep happening unless it gets massive media attention or enforced penalties attached. Until then, we all know how much cops like people who exercise their first amendment rights, especially when they happen to be homeless.

I am thinking about safety, or I'd think it was safe for them to come into the road, and wouldn't keep saying that I don't think the side of the road is the best place. But I'll always consider the likelihood of what could've happened, rather than the possibility existing at all in the first place. And if that likelihood seems pretty low, I'm not going to spout off about safety first.

 

[VentMedic]

Wish I could agree, but I've become very jaded about internet activism and awareness-raising in general. It's all too easy to care online, and rarely does it translate to change in the real world.

Meanwhile, I think answering compassionate real-world actions with rants is very counterproductive. Feedback, sure, but this thread is pretty ridiculous.

What part of safety or homelessness do you find ridiculous?

It is too bad that you haven't gotten away from your computer to see what can be done. I don't just type on a computer but have been active in finding ways or better alternatives to get some of the homeless pointed in a direction where they can get the resources they need.

I an not a new EMT with a jaded view. It is sad that you have become jaded so early as an EMT. I have managed to work in healthcare for over 30 years by looking for ways to continue to improve the care provided to patients or others in need. I have also gone through several hurricanes and know first hand there are no true stereotypes to being homeless. However, I still would rather they find a safer location than in a traffic area.

Get off your butt to see what is out there and where you can make a difference. To criticize those of us who do work to make a difference, no matter how small, is just narrow minded and very, very jaded.

 

[Seaglass]

What part of safety or homelessness do you find ridiculous?

It is too bad that you haven't gotten away from your computer to see what can be done. I don't just type on a computer but have been active in finding ways or better alternatives to get some of the homeless pointed in a direction where they can get the resources they need.

I an not a new EMT with a jaded view. It is sad that you have become jaded so early as an EMT. I have managed to work in healthcare for over 30 years by looking for ways to continue to improve the care provided to patients or others in need. I have also gone through several hurricanes and know first hand there are no true stereotypes to being homeless. However, I still would rather they find a safer location than in a traffic area.

Get off your butt to see what is out there and where you can make a difference. To criticize those of us who do work to make a difference, no matter how small, is just narrow minded and very, very jaded.

Don't you mean my UFO?

Seriously, I wouldn't be bothered with explaining stuff to someone who thinks I'm an internet fake if I weren't really bored at work and trying to stay awake. Seeing how that is the case, though...

Once again, you're criticizing what you don't know. I've made a lot of attempts at making a difference, and continue to make them. Some end well; some don't. My time trying to help the homeless has shown me why shelter people and caseworkers have such high turnover rates. There are only a few clients I feel like I've really been able to do much for, and there are always more people falling into the cycle to replace them. Meanwhile, new people who come in with good attitudes tend to be crushed by people such as yourself, who constantly nitpick everything they do in a particularly unsupportive manner. So, almost everyone who started with me is gone. And I will be too in a few more months. But being jaded on this particular issue doesn't mean I'm jaded on life, EMS, or different ways of doing good. There will always be more areas that could use some help...

 

[VentMedic]

Don't you mean my UFO?

Seriously, I wouldn't be bothered with explaining stuff to someone who thinks I'm an internet fake if I weren't really bored at work and trying to stay awake. Seeing how that is the case, though...

Once again, you're criticizing what you don't know. I've made a lot of attempts at making a difference, and continue to make them. Some end well; some don't. My time trying to help the homeless has shown me why shelter people and caseworkers have such high turnover rates. There are only a few clients I feel like I've really been able to do much for, and there are always more people falling into the cycle to replace them. Meanwhile, new people who come in with good attitudes tend to be crushed by people such as yourself, who constantly nitpick everything they do in a particularly unsupportive manner. So, almost everyone who started with me is gone. And I will be too in a few more months. But being jaded on this particular issue doesn't mean I'm jaded on life, EMS, or different ways of doing good. There will always be more areas that could use some help...

Your many posts on this thread have provided a good view into your beliefs. You also contradict yourself way too many times with the "no more, no less" comments. That lends very little credibility to the experience you claim to have.

So you couldn't help the whole world and you are discarding the few that you did help? Maybe it is time for you to move on sooner rather than later if you can not see any good in your work and only look at the negative. If you don't believe in what you are doing, others won't either and that includes those you are supposedly trying to help.

The fact that you believe I am crushing your "good" attitude by telling you to be safe and respect of safety of others shows you may not be as committed as you think to whatever you are doing.

Also, take a look at the turnover rate for EMTs and you might have an awakening there also.

Again and again, I want people to check out the facts for themselves which is why I usually provide link to resources.

Again and again, I would like some to think outside of EMS to see a whole world of human life in various social and economic positions.

Again and again, I am not going to condone someone to do something that will get them a ticket.

SAFETY! Whether you are in an ambulance or in your own vehicle you must remember the area around you. PERIOD. Is this really that difficult of a concept? That is my whole message here.

 

[Seaglass]

Your many posts on this thread have provided a good view into your beliefs. You also contradict yourself way too many times with the "no more, no less" comments. That lends very little credibility to the experience you claim to have.

How so? You've been saying I'm something I never was--an advocate. I'm not into politics, consciousness-raising activities, or any of that. Calling anyone who works with a cause an advocate seems like a stretch to me...

So you couldn't help the whole world and you are discarding the few that you did help? Maybe it is time for you to move on sooner rather than later if you can not see any good in your work and only look at the negative. If you don't believe in what you are doing, others won't either and that includes those you are supposedly trying to help.

Go reread the post. I'm not giving up on the world or other ways of trying to do good. I'm just giving up on working with this particular issue, perhaps only at my particular place. Most of the few clients I think I actually helped have graduated. The ones left will by the time I leave. And yeah, the rest is all part of why I'm leaving now.

The fact that you believe I am crushing your "good" attitude by telling you to be safe and respect of safety of others shows you may not be as committed as you think to whatever you are doing.

I was mostly referring to the general attitude towards the OP, since I tend to have a thick enough skin and (as you've noticed) not much good attitude left to lose on the subject. I disagree with some of the content, but it's the attitude that really disgusted me.

Also, take a look at the turnover rate for EMTs and you might have an awakening there also.

It'll be too early to say for a few years, but the possibility would be a terrible reason not to try. I'm loving the work so far, which has been a good sign in the past. I never loved working with the homeless.

SAFETY! Whether you are in an ambulance or in your own vehicle you must remember the area around you. PERIOD. Is this really that difficult of a concept? That is my whole message here.

Yeah, safety's important. Nobody's disagreed with that--only the details.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Again, your company does not need a policy. Massachusetts has the same law on the books as many of the other states. Whether or not LEOs decide to enforce it is another issue. However, that still does not give YOU the right to violate the law or actively encourage someone else to do so.

I already posted the law as it pertains to Florida, where Sasha is, and other states. There does not need to be a company policy specific to this. There are many, many laws on the books that a company shouldn't have to repeat in their policy manuals. However, as for any citizen, there are some that you should be aware of for your own safety and that of others. This was a good learning experience and hopefully it made some aware of what to do and what not to do. You can still be kind to the homeless and even panhandlers but you must also be aware of the scene around you and of your own personal safety when you open your window or let your guard down. Safety is the bigger issue here and not abuse of the homeless.

Don't break laws while on duty. Yeah, someone mentioned the philosophers and them saying things about breaking laws you find unjust. Go right ahead, but your employers has the option (and rightly so) of immediately terminating you for doing something ILLEGAL.

I've seen one of the St. Louis shelters and these were not the kind of folks you see in the "Grapes of Wrath".

This is why I generally don't venture into the city that much. We'll stay out here in West/Central county! Although the city is really nice in the day, i've only been there once in the night and it was a different place!

Why do you not see a safety problem with standing on a road way?

If a person in a car in the far lane offers the person something, do you not think they are going to go for it? How many of these homeless may also be under the influence of some drug/alcohol or mentally impaired?

Did you not learn any type of roadway safety anywhere even in your elementary school education?

It is difficult to enforce these safety rules because well-meaning do gooders keep the handouts coming and encouraging these individuals to put their safety at risk.

You are not doing them any favors by encouraging them to become road kill.

I'm also against those charities that allowed to solicit for cash at intersections. They just cause too many problems even if they are wearing the yellow jackets. You have to drive around them, which is hard on narrow intersections. People get irritated at them since the light is green but the guy in front of them is still trying to get his wallet out holding everyone back. Then the people behind them gun their engines at the workers who get startled and step into oncoming traffic...

Homeless people are worse, they don't know about safety regs and don't have the yellow jackets.

 

[Sasha]

A couple of things, I would never encourage someone to cross traffic. He was standing in the grass right outside our window.

However, I didn't realize I was not only unintentionally encouraging him to panhandle in dangerous places, but breaking a law.

Some of you have brought up valid points that had never crossed my mind and I will definitely remember it next time I see a homeless person.

Thank you very much.

 

[WuLabsWuTecH]

Any time sasha!

I also applaud you for thinking things through and learning and reevaluating as that is what this forum should be used for. Let Sasha be an example to any newbies out there reading this that the knee jerk defensive reflex should not be invoked everytime someone disagrees with you. We had a topic, and we had good discussion about it. Sasha is reevaluating (doesn't mean she'll change her opinion, but she'll at least look at it) and learning!

 

[Sasha]

Any time sasha!

I also applaud you for thinking things through and learning and reevaluating as that is what this forum should be used for. Let Sasha be an example to any newbies out there reading this that the knee jerk defensive reflex should not be invoked everytime someone disagrees with you. We had a topic, and we had good discussion about it. Sasha is reevaluating (doesn't mean she'll change her opinion, but she'll at least look at it) and learning!

I actually think I will try to take a page out of Vent's book and instead provide resources as oppose to $5 or a lunch. She is absolutely correct, that is the best way to approach the problem of homelessness. You know.. feed a man a fish for a day and he fishes for a lifetime.

 

[VentMedic]

I actually think I will try to take a page out of Vent's book and instead provide resources as oppose to $5 or a lunch. She is absolutely correct, that is the best way to approach the problem of homelessness. You know.. feed a man a fish for a day and he fishes for a lifetime.

Don't be surprised if some, actually very few, will be receptive to help. Some have come to the expectation that they are entitled to handouts if they stand on a corner. Those I ignor. Their expectations are reinforced each time someone does give them something. But, those that do take a flier or advice will might make your day. Or, you may never know if you made a difference. They just have to seek out the resources that are available.

Even I, while in SF last week, gave a couple of dollars to an elderly lady sitting in front of Macy's at Union Square. She was holding a kitten and some type of rat both curled up in her lap and asleep. I asked her if she had a place to stay as I did have a couple of business cards in my pocket and she assured me she did.

 

[Sasha]

Contrary to popular belief, I do not have an unrealistic idea of the world, I know some people simply cannot be helped because they wont help themselves.