Does Anyone Else Hate "Too Smart to be a Paramedic"?

RocketMedic

RocketMedic

Californian, Lost in Texas
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Title says it all- I really don't like it when people go and say that someone's too smart to be a paramedic (especially if it's fellow EMS workers). How can we even begin to lay claim to true professional status if we tell our brightest to leave the field and become nurses or whatnot (yes, I know, the money is better), but it's retarded for us as a profession to welcome our new members by warning them to leave.

We in EMS do some incredibly invasive, complex, risky things with inadequate training and no supervision. We should probably try and keep our smartest people and change that "inadequate training" thing along the way. To me, it's "are you smart enough to be a paramedic?" Perhaps that is the question we should ask.
 
If there's one thing paramedicine is good at, it's the anti-intellectualism aspect.
 
Rocketmedic40 said:
To me, it's "are you smart enough to be a paramedic?"
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9/10 of my coworkers, aren't. Or maybe they are capable and don't strive to be.

That is what drives people like myself away from wanting to remain in EMS. The patient base is bad enough but when your colleagues are just as intolerable and stupid, you have no desire to stay and it just makes sense to move on to more respected professions.

It is never going to change. Don't get your hopes up. As I said countless times, the only cure for EMS is to destroy it and rebuild from the bottom up. EMS has to die before it can be fixed.
 
NYMedic828 said:
9/10 of my coworkers, aren't [smart enough]. Or maybe they are capable and don't strive to be.

That is what drives people like myself away from wanting to remain in EMS. The patient base is bad enough but when your colleagues are just as intolerable and stupid, you have no desire to stay and it just makes sense to move on to more respected professions.
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Exactly how I feel. My coworkers stress me out far more than the patients. There's something wrong when you're shunned by your colleagues for trying to further your own knowledge. :glare:
 
PoeticInjustice said:
Exactly how I feel. My coworkers stress me out far more than the patients. There's something wrong when you're shunned by your colleagues for trying to further your own knowledge. :glare:
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If you'd just treat the patient and not the monitor you wouldn't be shunned......or something silly like that ;-)
 
NYMedic828 said:
That is what drives people like myself away from wanting to remain in EMS. The patient base is bad enough but when your colleagues are just as intolerable and stupid, you have no desire to stay and it just makes sense to move on to more respected professions.
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QFT :glare:
 
This^^.

From what I see I can further my education and still be a medic. I'll still make the same money and not really be able to move forward until the old guard moves on.

Or move to nursing and double-triple the money and education is valued.
 
Maybe it's a difference in education up here versus the states, the competition to get into Paramedic programs (the majority in my program had Bachelor's or another two year college program) or just the culture of the service I work in, but we really don't see any of this as you describe it.

It is a regular occurrence for medics here to be working on degrees on the side, being involved in research, attending PA school or a few heading off to medical school. Certainly that's not the majority or even a large minority, but it's not a rarity. More importantly there is not a culture to push these people out, discourage them or even consider it as odd.

I'm extremely lucky to work somewhere that still aggressively pays for medics to go to ACP school, paying their wages for the year while they attend school. In the more distant future as part of the Community Paramedicine project the current plan is to send experienced ACP's to PA school and utilizing PA's on the road.

On a related note I was quite surprised when I was teaching an EMR course recently to a group of enlisted soldiers at the wide variety of educations. I had an ACP with 18yrs experience prior to going reg force, a guy with a MSc in chemistry and a few others all with honours Bachelor's degrees all were also combat vets. I suppose I was guilty of a similar attitude going into this course as described by the OP.
 
99.999% of the people I work with, would look at me like I had 10 heads if I suggested giving a peds patient IN fentanyl for a fractured limb. They actually would probably tell me I am crazy and going to kill the kid. Best to just let him suffer on all the bumps we hit on the way to the hospital.

Actually, they look at me like I have 10 heads already if I suggest getting discretionary orders for opiates or benzos. If it doesn't fall into the protocol, it must not be worth our time right? Just ambulance drivers after all.
 
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when you have an education system using "instructors" and a practice based off of protocols it comes with the territory...
 
WolfmanHarris said:
Maybe it's a difference in education up here versus the states, the competition to get into Paramedic programs (the majority in my program had Bachelor's or another two year college program) or just the culture of the service I work in, but we really don't see any of this as you describe it.

It is a regular occurrence for medics here to be working on degrees on the side, being involved in research, attending PA school or a few heading off to medical school. Certainly that's not the majority or even a large minority, but it's not a rarity. More importantly there is not a culture to push these people out, discourage them or even consider it as odd.

I'm extremely lucky to work somewhere that still aggressively pays for medics to go to ACP school, paying their wages for the year while they attend school. In the more distant future as part of the Community Paramedicine project the current plan is to send experienced ACP's to PA school and utilizing PA's on the road.

On a related note I was quite surprised when I was teaching an EMR course recently to a group of enlisted soldiers at the wide variety of educations. I had an ACP with 18yrs experience prior to going reg force, a guy with a MSc in chemistry and a few others all with honours Bachelor's degrees all were also combat vets. I suppose I was guilty of a similar attitude going into this course as described by the OP.
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The Canadian system is how it's should be in my opinion. There is no EMS education here in the states. It's vocational training, nothing more.
 
Wow negative thread spiral, quick everyone think about puppies chasing butterflies.

Part of the reason that medics get the whole "not very smart" label is that it's part of the act many medics have to put on to fit in. I think it comes from the all male beginnings of the profession. Real men don't do a lot of thinking, real men don't need a bunch of book learning, real men just need a strong back and strong stomach ect. Eventually they get tired of the act and move on to something else and the ones who don't have to act remain behind. Although the demographics of EMS have changed the mindset hasn't caught up. The fact that people are here on EMTLIFE is proof positive that there are those in EMS who seek to improve the profession and themselves. It's slow going admittedly but the only way it will get done is by changing attitudes one at a time from within. I think as providers we in EMS need to become better at raising ourselves up to the level of our "smart" peers and less dragging them down to our level.

I get the "you're too smart to be a flight attendant" from pilots all the time. I just tell em nah maybe you're just too dumb to be a pilot, but you know I laugh and smile....
 
Rocketmedic40 said:
Title says it all- I really don't like it when people go and say that someone's too smart to be a paramedic (especially if it's fellow EMS workers).
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Welcome to my world.

For years it has gone from "you're too smart to be a medic" to "quit wasting time with those people."

Some things never change.
 
I'd like to think that times are slowly changing. The fire service used to think college educated applicants were useless academics who couldn't hack it in a fire 50 or so years ago, and now every fire officer and half of all fire candidates have a bachelor's degree or higher in something.

EMS is slowly getting on that bandwagon. I work in the suburbs of Philly, and there are several medics at my service with higher education, sometimes in fields unrelated to EMS. No one has yet told them they are too smart to be a medic. No-one looks at me funny for mentioning medical studies either.

I think that some of those quotes come from the assumption that a very intelligent person tends to be only book smart--like a paramedic who can explain anything you want to know about intubation, but is unable to actually intubate when the time comes.
It's a completely false assumption, but stereotypes being what they are, I'm sure at some point in everyone's life they've met someone like that, just probably not on the ambulance.

The other reason I could think of would be confusion as to why someone who dropped $120,000 on a 4-year degree would then decide to work at a job that pays $20/hour.
 
Well, I'm not going to fall into that retard trap. I need to become more knowledgeable to do this job better.
 
As long as EMS attracts "life savers" that can finish a year of VoEd and think they are awesome it wont change.
 
rescue1 said:
to why someone who dropped $120,000 on a 4-year degree would then decide to work at a job that pays $20/hour.
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Out here on the left coast in socal, it's more like $17 top step for AMR.

Also, why anyone would drop 120k on a degree (MD/DO/DDS aside) is beyond me. If someone is dumb enough to do such a thing...
 
I took the Maryland critical care course earlier this year and am taking classes to get my community paramedic certification now and i got the "why don't you just go to PA school" from my wife. I told her it is because i can't do algebra, but secretly, it is because i like being the smart kid at work in spite of the fact that 95% of what spews from my mouth is a loosely fact based glob of BS.
 
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