Do you pack heat?

[SanDiegoEmt7]

If the evidence is clear that your wife was trying to kill your mistress... yes, theoretically, you could. You'd also be investigated for a DV component too. :unsure:

The reality of justifiable homicide in California is you'd better forget the "committing a felony" stuff. If you commit a felony against me, in some manner that doesn't involve Great Bodily Injury, could I kill you? Yes... according to PC 197. I would imagine I'd be prosecuted for it, and probably lose.

PC 197, 198, and 198.5 all provide for some defenses to PC 187 (murder) charges. Even if you're successful in defending yourself, or charges are never filed due to the homicide being "justified", those sections do NOT provide immunity to civil suit. And yes, you'll likely be civilly sued.

This topic has been discussed many times elsewhere. Yes, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to CA. Other states have a much more complete castle doctrine than California does. Oh, and did anyone notice that nowhere in 197, 198, or 198.5 is a retreat requirement?

But...
Penal Code 198
A bare fear of the commission of any of the offenses mentioned in subdivisions 2 and 3 of Section 197, to prevent which homicide may be lawfully committed, is not sufficient to justify it. But the circumstances must be sufficient to excite the fears of a reasonable person, and the party killing must have acted under the influence of such fears alone.

Most people aren't afraid of someone running away from them. Hello Prison!

I do agree, though, I wouldn't risk it in California, unless I truly thought my life or my families was in danger. I would especially careful in certain parts of CA, such as San Francisco.

 

[emtchick171]

I think it is a great idea to own a firearm, I come from a family that has a strong military background & the day I got my license, my father told me "never go anywhere without your pistol." Granted, I do not take my gun to work with me, but I do carry a knife.

I know in our field of EMS we see a lot of gunshots, however...remember the saying "guns don't kill people, people kill people."

I come from an area in North Carolina that has the highest crime rate of any other county in NC. It is nothing for us to have 5-6 shootings on a weekend shift. You can never be too prepared to defend yourself.



I actually just found the county I'm from...with some statistics on a government website...these are the 2000 statistics however.

ALL 8,906
Murder 28
Rape 39
Robbery 232
Aggravated Assault 529
Burglary 3,042
Larceny - theft 4,173
Motor vehicle thefts 813
Coverage indicator 100%

 

[CAO]

So you're going to shoot the person before they shoot at you? Don't you have other stuff to worry about? Like patients? If you want to play gunslinger go to the police academy, because I think EMS is the wrong career path for you.

On duty, I shouldn't be there to begin with. Scene safety and all that. If it gets to that point, I'm leaving. That way I won't be getting shot at, right?

Off duty, if it comes to it, that's pretty much the idea.

Just offhand, I do have a degree in Criminal Justice. I did go down that path, and now I've moved into this. I'm an EMT, and I'm a good one. Just because I choose to carry off duty doesn't have a single thing to do with how I care for my patients.

Now why are we so judgmental?

 

[clibb]

On duty, I shouldn't be there to begin with. Scene safety and all that. If it gets to that point, I'm leaving. That way I won't be getting shot at, right?

Off duty, if it comes to it, that's pretty much the idea.

Just offhand, I do have a degree in Criminal Justice. I did go down that path, and now I've moved into this. I'm an EMT, and I'm a good one. Just because I choose to carry off duty doesn't have a single thing to do with how I care for my patients.

Now why are we so judgmental?

Off duty is completely different though. The last thing I'd want on board my ambulance is a pistol.

 

[CAO]

So when did I say I was carrying on duty?

 

[DaniGrrl]

Anything that is, at the very least, not per-capita is useless. It's not really amazing or hard to understand why a large country is going to have more crime than a small country when looking at just the raw numbers.

I just wanted to point out that the link did include per capita data. We ranked 8th there behind such examples of safety as South Africa, Columbia, Thailand, and Mexico. Australia and Great Britain ranked 27th and 32nd, respectively.

As far as gun laws in the US, neither side can win the argument, there are no conclusive studies that can show a direct correlation between CCW and crime rates or personal safety. There is anecdotal evidence on both sides.

Personally, I don't find that someone carrying a gun around me makes me feel more safe. I lived in SE DC for many years, I never had a gun and I never felt particularly unsafe. I prefer to rely upon my common sense to keep me out of hazardous situations. It hasn't failed me yet.

 

[medic417]

I believe just about every ambulance packs heat.

 

[clibb]

So when did I say I was carrying on duty?

You didn't exactly state that you do. But you pretty much said you want to.

Get a bullet proof vest and you're good to go. Last thing you want to do is shoot a patient. You have absolutely no authority. You're an EMS provider not Law Enforcement. How come people don't understand that?

...How about not getting shot at? A vest only covers so much.

 

[ffemt8978]

You didn't exactly state that you do. But you pretty much said you want to.

And nothing you said in this post in any way indicates that CAO wants to carry on duty.

 

[CAO]

And nothing you said in this post in any way indicates that CAO wants to carry on duty.

Thank you.

*shrug*

The only thing I implied was that I didn't like the idea of being shot at.

 

[emtchick171]

The only thing I implied was that I didn't like the idea of being shot at.

+1
I agree!!!!I don't blame you! I don't think anyone else can either...

 

[CAO]

Glad to see that I'm not coming across as a reckless medical cowboy.

...unless any of the lady's here are into that kind of thing

That, for anybody needing clarification, was a joke.

It was not intended to make light of any of the conversation, but merely to show that I have not taken any offense to the same conversation.

I generally carry when I can, and I don't when I can't. I only carry legally. Situational awareness is more important than anything. If you don't have that, no tool, including firearms, will help you at all.

I've never had to use my weapon. I pray that I never do. I carry only because I understand the responsibility. I've trained, I've been trained, and the state of Tennessee sees me qualified to defend myself and my loved ones to the point of deadly force if needed.

That does not make me a bad EMT. That does not make me a bad person. That does not make me a bad anything.

In the end, all it makes me is a person who understands that if somebody is threatening my life or the life of somebody I love, I may not have the time to wait for police to arrive. For some reason, I don't think he'd wait for the men in blue to show up, no matter how nicely I asked.

 

[FrostbiteMedic]

I generally carry when I can, and I don't when I can't. I only carry legally. Situational awareness is more important than anything. If you don't have that, no tool, including firearms, will help you at all.

It has to be remembered that our head is our #1 tool, whether it be in our jobs, or in our lives. A gun is nothing more than a tool, and should only be used in situations that call for that tool. Very well said CAO..

I've never had to use my weapon. I pray that I never do. I carry only because I understand the responsibility. I've trained, I've been trained, and the state of Tennessee sees me qualified to defend myself and my loved ones to the point of deadly force if needed.

That does not make me a bad EMT. That does not make me a bad person. That does not make me a bad anything.

In the end, all it makes me is a person who understands that if somebody is threatening my life or the life of somebody I love, I may not have the time to wait for police to arrive. For some reason, I don't think he'd wait for the men in blue to show up, no matter how nicely I asked.

Any of us who carry hope that we never have to use our weapons, but that will not prevent us from using them, if and only if they are brought out to protect lives. I will NOT hesitate to use my firearm if the situation mandates deadly force, but that firearm NEVER clears the holster unless it is going to be used. So far, the only places my firearm has cleared the holster is at the firing range as I practice my skills.
BTW...what part of TN are you in CAO? I'm located in East/Southeast Tennessee...

 

[JJR512]

A guy I was riding with yesterday told me once heard the following over the radio. A medic told the dispatcher they were taking shots. The dispatcher said to retreat to a safe distance. The medic replied, "Negative, we're returning fire!" Turns out the medic was also a police officer.

It probably doesn't sound as amusing through my retelling as it did when I heard it...

 

[emtchick171]

A guy I was riding with yesterday told me once heard the following over the radio. A medic told the dispatcher they were taking shots. The dispatcher said to retreat to a safe distance. The medic replied, "Negative, we're returning fire!" Turns out the medic was also a police officer.

It probably doesn't sound as amusing through my retelling as it did when I heard it...

haha. that's a great story, I would have paid to see the look on the dispatchers face when the medic said "negative we're returning fire." ahh the wonderful world of ems.

 

[CAO]

BTW...what part of TN are you in CAO? I'm located in East/Southeast Tennessee...

I'm from the Chattanooga area, but not quite.

 

[clibb]

A guy I was riding with yesterday told me once heard the following over the radio. A medic told the dispatcher they were taking shots. The dispatcher said to retreat to a safe distance. The medic replied, "Negative, we're returning fire!" Turns out the medic was also a police officer.

It probably doesn't sound as amusing through my retelling as it did when I heard it...

No way. Absolutely no :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing way. One of the medics I ride with is a 15 year old veteran at our police department and has been with our EMS department for 10 years. He will arrive on shift with his police car but he leaves all his stuff in the cop car. He is not allowed to carry a gun on him or make any arrests when he's working as a medic.
This is what I've been told by him. Prove me wrong.

 

[Fox800]

No way. Absolutely no :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing way. One of the medics I ride with is a 15 year old veteran at our police department and has been with our EMS department for 10 years. He will arrive on shift with his police car but he leaves all his stuff in the cop car. He is not allowed to carry a gun on him or make any arrests when he's working as a medic.
This is what I've been told by him. Prove me wrong.

Pretty stupid that the agency won't allow him to carry concealed. I'm not sure what state you're in, but in most states off-duty LEOs can carry absolutely anywhere (except maybe the secured areas of jails or airports). He wouldn't be advertising anything by keeping it concealed, and he would be a great asset for the safety of his partners/coworkers on scene in the event that something went really bad.

 

[Fox800]

I just wanted to point out that the link did include per capita data. We ranked 8th there behind such examples of safety as South Africa, Columbia, Thailand, and Mexico. Australia and Great Britain ranked 27th and 32nd, respectively.

As far as gun laws in the US, neither side can win the argument, there are no conclusive studies that can show a direct correlation between CCW and crime rates or personal safety. There is anecdotal evidence on both sides.

Personally, I don't find that someone carrying a gun around me makes me feel more safe. I lived in SE DC for many years, I never had a gun and I never felt particularly unsafe. I prefer to rely upon my common sense to keep me out of hazardous situations. It hasn't failed me yet.

What percentage of firearms offenses are committed by otherwise law-abiding gun owners with no criminal histories that prevent them from legally owning a firearm? How many were committed by thugs, gang-bangers, or convicted felons? On top of that, how many are committed by CCW holders?

How exactly would you design a study to investigate the relationship between CCWs and personal safety? Study those who were the victims of violent crime and compare CCW vs. a non-CCW control group, looking for instances of bodily injury? Get back to me on that,

If you felt safe going unarmed, more power to you. I don't think that most CCW holders would "rely on their firearms" to keep them out of hazardous situations, that's called "looking for trouble". Your last paragraph is pretty smug.

 

[medic417]

No way. Absolutely no :censored::censored::censored::censored:ing way. One of the medics I ride with is a 15 year old veteran at our police department and has been with our EMS department for 10 years. He will arrive on shift with his police car but he leaves all his stuff in the cop car. He is not allowed to carry a gun on him or make any arrests when he's working as a medic.
This is what I've been told by him. Prove me wrong.

In most states there is no law against a firearm being in an ambulance. Some services establish a policy of no firearms allowed.