[Didn't Expect to Come Back, but...] First Save

[Cory]

Yes, you're absolutely right, now that I look at the official course materials. Is AHA different in this respect?



Okay, I agree, but isn't the sign that the airway is obstructed the lack of a rising chest during the rescue breaths? That's what leads to your 100 distinct attempts to dislodge the object per minute.

Well, I was also taught to use your thumb yo remove any VISIBLE obstructions. But if you can't get it out that way, and they are unresponsive, then you start compressions (and in a drowning case, rescue breathing)

One thing I always found odd about Lifeguard training: they don't really say how to specifically treat a drowning victim or what most drowning victims will require, they just say to remove from water, and start assesment/ABC's. It wasn't until after this that my instructor happened to mention that I should treat an unresponive drowning victim the same way as an unresponsive choking victim if they are not breathing, but this failed to be mentioned in my class.

 

[Mountain Res-Q]

Yes, you're absolutely right, now that I look at the official course materials. Is AHA different in this respect?

Okay, I agree, but isn't the sign that the airway is obstructed the lack of a rising chest during the rescue breaths? That's what leads to your 100 distinct attempts to dislodge the object per minute.

1. I don't know what AHA says on that (or don't remember)... the only reason I know what ARC says is because I am working on becoming an instructor for ARC Wilderness First Aid (something that my area lacks despite an interest in by the community) and "had to get" Instructors Cert in Lay FA/CPR/AED (as of 3 weeks ago - but I have no intention of teaching this level - CPRO, Public Safety, and Wilderness is more my style).

2. Possibly... but that obstruction could be due to the possitioning of the neck... which is why you reposition first, try two more breaths, and then move on. My point was that an obstucted airway on an unconscious person is one of several reasons why Lay folks are taught to do compressions. And the rules change depending on Adult/Child/Infant as to pulse check and the use of rescue breathing...

 

[Akulahawk]

Well, I was also taught to use your thumb yo remove any VISIBLE obstructions. But if you can't get it out that way, and they are unresponsive, then you start compressions (and in a drowning case, rescue breathing)

One thing I always found odd about Lifeguard training: they don't really say how to specifically treat a drowning victim or what most drowning victims will require, they just say to remove from water, and start assesment/ABC's. It wasn't until after this that my instructor happened to mention that I should treat an unresponive drowning victim the same way as an unresponsive choking victim if they are not breathing, but this failed to be mentioned in my class.

I suppose I was fortunate... I was taught that stuff. It's actually very simple, and it's the reason why lifeguard training doesn't get into it very much. You want to be certain that the airway is open. A drowning victim doesn't need suctioning... except to clear the pharynx. There will be other issues down the road for the wet drowning victim, but for the immediate rescue... they'll need air. Now if you're seeing vomit coming up... suction/remove that stuff ASAP. That stuff will cause some really nasty problems if it gets into the lungs. Your First Aid/CPR coursework should have taught you how to deal with unconscious vomiting victims...

Once the victim is removed from the water (lifeguard skills), you then must use other skills to further assess the problems... (First Aid and CPR skills). The idea is to transition from one activity to another.

 

[Brandon O]

The ARC CPR for Professional Rescuer class also teaches chest compressions for unconscious choking in adults - 100 per minute, the same as CPR. They formerly taught abdominal thrusts, but that changed at some point (my first responder's class video showed the old way, the CPR video the new).

Of course, as others have mentioned, you do the "shake and shout" first and then do your ABCs. You only move on to the chest compressions if the rescue breaths don't make the chest rise.)

This is completely correct and I'm a little upset that some people are tearing into the OP based on CORRECT application of the recommendations (maybe an imperfect assessment, but that's a separate issue). No chest rise, reposition and try again, still nothing, you go straight into CPR, checking for visible objects each time you do your breaths. The chest thrusts are your attempt to dislodge the obstruction. Abdominal thrusts are used on the CONSCIOUS patient only.