COVID VACCINE - The Megathread
- Thread starter Itomaschik
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Good for you. Your virtue signaling game is tight
.Meanwhile, some of those who you are hoping get fired over not wanting the vaccine have truly been on the front lines (to correctly use an over-used phrase) of putting themselves at risk to take care of sick, infectious COVID patients every day of the past year: the intensivists, RNs, RRTs and CNAs who have worked double shifts and 7 day weeks at times because of the need. More than a few of whom actually got COVID, recovered, and went back to work as soon as they could. Even if you don't respect the ideas of autonomy and self-determination for normal people, do you really think that THESE FOLKS at least haven't earned the right to have some say in whether or not they are one of the guinea pigs?
I mean, does the vaccine really work in the real world, or not? If we aren't confident that it does, then we shouldn't be pushing it on anyone. If we are confident that it works, then all we really need to do in order to cut way down on M&M is to vaccinate the highest-risk populations, and anyone else that (voluntarily) takes the vaccine is just gravy. I just read about a poll that reported that about 60% of people said they will willingly take the vaccine, and 60% just happens to be roughly the percentage of the population that we need vaccinated in order to attain herd immunity (not that we really need "herd" immunity; we really just need older and sicker people to be immune). So perhaps the hard working, selfless healthcare workers who have been bearing most of the brunt of this all along don't really need to get "their resumes in order" after all.
I’m scheduled to get mine this week.
So far we have paid any of our staff who contract COVID and have been working clinically to stay home and quarantine, in several cases for 5-6 weeks. I wonder if staff decline vaccination will they still be allowed to collect quarantine pay or get cut off? We don’t hire anyone who refuses MMR and TDaP, and will terminate those who don’t stay up to date (which we give for free) unless they have a valid and documented reason (which basically only includes a very strict list of medical conditions). Another group made the flu vaccine mandatory this year rather than optional. I wouldn’t think it is that far off to think that some systems may make vaccination a condition of employment.
So far we have paid any of our staff who contract COVID and have been working clinically to stay home and quarantine, in several cases for 5-6 weeks. I wonder if staff decline vaccination will they still be allowed to collect quarantine pay or get cut off? We don’t hire anyone who refuses MMR and TDaP, and will terminate those who don’t stay up to date (which we give for free) unless they have a valid and documented reason (which basically only includes a very strict list of medical conditions). Another group made the flu vaccine mandatory this year rather than optional. I wouldn’t think it is that far off to think that some systems may make vaccination a condition of employment.
I doubt you'll see many employers mandating it anytime soon. Pfizer and moderna are likely shielded from lawsuits. Your employer wont be.
Also, dont worry about other people.
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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I'm signed up to get mine once they become available to us in NC
The surprising thing is they are not making it mandatory for DoD Dept of Health Civilians at this point (Military medical is). Since it is considered an emergency medication administration they won't. When it hits the point that it is available for everyone they may change the policy.
Prior to that, it will probably be optional.
At my part-time job, they are coming out to give it to the FT people today, but not to the part-time people yet.
Prior to that, it will probably be optional.
At my part-time job, they are coming out to give it to the FT people today, but not to the part-time people yet.
PotatoMedic
Has no idea what I'm doing.
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I was reading some literature from my health system that I work for, and vaccines under an EUA cannot be made mandatory at all.
I want and will get it but will not be the first in line to do it.
Just like buying a new car, phone, medication, etc. I don't want to be the first to do it. Wait it out a little bit and make sure things are OK and get it. We have 1-3 confirmed covid patients every shift and have good PPE, so I'm not too worried.
Just like buying a new car, phone, medication, etc. I don't want to be the first to do it. Wait it out a little bit and make sure things are OK and get it. We have 1-3 confirmed covid patients every shift and have good PPE, so I'm not too worried.
akflightmedic
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Already have been 100K + who were first in line....between the two top makers...and now roll out on top of that.
When is it no longer "first in line"? Legit question I have asked others in different forums and they never come back to me with a reply. What is your personal definition or time line for "it has been long enough and now I will get it"?
When is it no longer "first in line"? Legit question I have asked others in different forums and they never come back to me with a reply. What is your personal definition or time line for "it has been long enough and now I will get it"?
I would say a couple months is good for me to see what happens to people in a non controlled clinical trial. It normally takes a lot longer than what it took now to develop, test and roll a vaccine out.
Alan L Serve
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My dear friends,
A vote of "no"
is a vote for death.
A vote of "no"
is a vote for death.
Yea, but in California where I am at, employers can make it mandatory and terminate you for not getting it.
akflightmedic
Forum Deputy Chief
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Bob (just picking on you mostly cause you are replying in earnest and I appreciate it)......while I agree in the past it has taken a lot longer to develop, test and roll out...some of the more significant vaccine rollouts (Hep A and B) were over 25 years ago. Yes we have rolled out rotovirus, Shingles and ebola since then...but prior to Hep A and B, polio of the 50s was the amazing one that changed the world!
Do you think research and science has not changed in that time period? I have heard so many people keep saying "in the past, it took X years to roll out"....but yes, in the past we can make all kinds of comparisons about many things from vaccines to technology to you name it...and it will not be a fair comparison. One has to give science and ongoing research credit and acknowledge that there has been a lot of ongoing background work for years regarding SARS (Covid) and acknowledge that the scientific community was not starting from scratch on this vaccine.
Most importantly, since this was a "global pandemic"...all research, all known details was shared around the world. Literally, 100s of 1000s of the best and brightest all had same info delivered to them and damn near unlimited funding was provided immediately. This has NEVER been done before in our vaccine development history. Not even when polio was crippling and killing kids we did not make it a priority nor did we share info.
The collaboration and the intelligence factors alone of who worked on this vaccine....it blows my mind, in a good way!
So thank you for sharing your timeline. You and others do provide fairly random, arbitrary timelines, but those are yours to determine. I acknowledge you have that "right", but at the same time being a healthcare provider, the lack of confidence in modern technology, science, research and the application of completely illogical rationales for not doing it often baffles me.
Do you think research and science has not changed in that time period? I have heard so many people keep saying "in the past, it took X years to roll out"....but yes, in the past we can make all kinds of comparisons about many things from vaccines to technology to you name it...and it will not be a fair comparison. One has to give science and ongoing research credit and acknowledge that there has been a lot of ongoing background work for years regarding SARS (Covid) and acknowledge that the scientific community was not starting from scratch on this vaccine.
Most importantly, since this was a "global pandemic"...all research, all known details was shared around the world. Literally, 100s of 1000s of the best and brightest all had same info delivered to them and damn near unlimited funding was provided immediately. This has NEVER been done before in our vaccine development history. Not even when polio was crippling and killing kids we did not make it a priority nor did we share info.
The collaboration and the intelligence factors alone of who worked on this vaccine....it blows my mind, in a good way!
So thank you for sharing your timeline. You and others do provide fairly random, arbitrary timelines, but those are yours to determine. I acknowledge you have that "right", but at the same time being a healthcare provider, the lack of confidence in modern technology, science, research and the application of completely illogical rationales for not doing it often baffles me.
akflightmedic
Forum Deputy Chief
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This is an interesting timeline to review for additional info.
No problem at all, I love conversations. I have confidence in technology and science, but not 100% enough to be the first in line to get it. Our workplace hasn't even gotten the vaccine yet so by the time we are to get it (priority before the public but probably not first) it might be one/two months since implementation and I will get it. I'm not an anti-vaxxer by any means, I have gotten all required vaccines but personally don't get the flu vaccine. Believe me, I won't say my opinion is backed by any facts, I'm just saying I don't like to be the first person in line for many things. I also wear all PPE, take precautions and regularly get covid tested even though it's not mandatory because I care. I feel a lot of these people who don't want the vaccines at all in healthcare don't wear masks outside of their healthcare job, are relaxed about PPE and only get tested when symptoms arise or they are required to. I by no means am a bare minimum person and my decision is completely personal.Bob (just picking on you mostly cause you are replying in earnest and I appreciate it)......while I agree in the past it has taken a lot longer to develop, test and roll out...some of the more significant vaccine rollouts (Hep A and B) were over 25 years ago. Yes we have rolled out rotovirus, Shingles and ebola since then...but prior to Hep A and B, polio of the 50s was the amazing one that changed the world!
Do you think research and science has not changed in that time period? I have heard so many people keep saying "in the past, it took X years to roll out"....but yes, in the past we can make all kinds of comparisons about many things from vaccines to technology to you name it...and it will not be a fair comparison. One has to give science and ongoing research credit and acknowledge that there has been a lot of ongoing background work for years regarding SARS (Covid) and acknowledge that the scientific community was not starting from scratch on this vaccine.
Most importantly, since this was a "global pandemic"...all research, all known details was shared around the world. Literally, 100s of 1000s of the best and brightest all had same info delivered to them and damn near unlimited funding was provided immediately. This has NEVER been done before in our vaccine development history. Not even when polio was crippling and killing kids we did not make it a priority nor did we share info.
The collaboration and the intelligence factors alone of who worked on this vaccine....it blows my mind, in a good way!
So thank you for sharing your timeline. You and others do provide fairly random, arbitrary timelines, but those are yours to determine. I acknowledge you have that "right", but at the same time being a healthcare provider, the lack of confidence in modern technology, science, research and the application of completely illogical rationales for not doing it often baffles me.
DrParasite
The fire extinguisher is not just for show
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interesting... can you be fired for not getting your flu shot? what about your hep B vaccine? what about Remdesivir or hydroxychloroquine? Aside from the whole "your an at-will employee who can be fired for any reason or no reason at all" I can't see any employer firing someone for not getting the covid vaccine. And if that were to happen, I can see a decent wrongful termination lawsuit being filed. Forcing an employee to be injected with anything or else they are fired could also be interpreted as a hostile workplace.
akflightmedic
Forum Deputy Chief
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Parasite....several articles say you are incorrect. I mean the precedents are already there for many health care employers and schools. It seems absolutely yes healthcare workers can be mandated and can be fired for refusing.
www.bloomberg.com
hub.jhu.edu
www.today.com
theconversation.com
These were all short and easy reads...
Can I Be Required to Get a Covid Vaccine?
www.bloomberg.com
Could COVID-19 vaccines become mandatory in the U.S.?
While there is legislative precedent for vaccine mandates, legal and public health expert Joanne Rosen says other strategies could help U.S. states achieve widespread vaccination for COVID-19
hub.jhu.edu
Can an employer mandate the COVID-19 vaccine?
Can the government or your employer make the COVID-19 vaccine compulsory?
www.today.com
Can COVID-19 vaccinations be mandated? Short answer: Yes
Employers could require their workers to get vaccinated against COVID-19 via both workplace policies and existing laws. Neither option, however, is simple or straightforward.
theconversation.com
These were all short and easy reads...
SandpitMedic
Crowd pleaser
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The safety mechanisms put in place were bypassed, rubber stamped, rushed, or done in phases concomitantly when they normally are not. Atop that, with the government shielding liability of the manufacturers and so much money to be made.... Well, let's just say I trust in the scientific method. It was circumvented in the development of these vaccines. I hardly ever trust a corporation to do the right thing instead of make billions in profits.
People are free to make their own choices. I am in a low-low risk category being young and healthy, and with the updates in CFR I choose to wait and see what happens with these vaccines. How long? TBD. I wear my mask and I follow CDC guidelines and that is supposed to work to limit spread. At work I wear my PPE when around patients to limit being both a vector and becoming infected.
Besides, if enough of you guys who are gung ho, no questions asked, all-in for it are immune we will have herd immunity in no time. (Which I would probably be also if I were high risk or cared for someone high risk). I hope that it works and I hope that there are little side effects to those receiving it.
People are free to make their own choices. I am in a low-low risk category being young and healthy, and with the updates in CFR I choose to wait and see what happens with these vaccines. How long? TBD. I wear my mask and I follow CDC guidelines and that is supposed to work to limit spread. At work I wear my PPE when around patients to limit being both a vector and becoming infected.
Besides, if enough of you guys who are gung ho, no questions asked, all-in for it are immune we will have herd immunity in no time. (Which I would probably be also if I were high risk or cared for someone high risk). I hope that it works and I hope that there are little side effects to those receiving it.
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