ok, I'm going to try to boil this down to the simplest way possible.
You feel comfortable with firearms. do you feel comfortable with me handling a firearm? do you feel comfortable with an 18 year old who just stepped on the ambulance? how about the 21 year old who can't stop dropping the damn clipboard? going to be comfortable with him handling the firearm? what about the guy who has never touched a gun in his life?
It has nothing to do with an individual's training and experience... if you are going to make a policy, an SOP, or a protocol, it needs to be brought down to the lowest level; if everyone is trained in firearm safety, than it becomes a moot point. but if everyone is not trained equally, well, that is where you have a problem.
everyone at my service is trained in sheet transfers. OTJ is accepted, provided EVERYONE has the training. the only reason I mentioned EMT class was because in theory everyone receives the same training. everyone at my service has CEVO and EVOC training. it's all documented. not everyone has firearms training.
blah blah blahI never said that. I used the EDP as a separate example.
still absurd. I won't even dignify that absurdity with a response.wow, just wow. maybe it's just me and my area, but I would trust a member of law enforcement more than I would a civilian with a CCW. call it their training, requirements to stay proficient, education on law enforcement compared to a guy who carry a gun for personal reason. but hey, that's just me.
you didn't answer what YOU would do.
honest question: aside from filling out a form, do you need any training or education to get a CCW? any training, any safety courses, or is it just "fill out this form, give us the $25 filing fee, and here is your permit, go get your gun"?
and does your state have any rule about having loaded firearms in an ambulance? I know mine does.you think telling them you are leaving it on the curb for them to pick up will move it on the priority list?
and contrary to the belief of some, the overwhelming MAJORITY of calls for PD are of the report nature; that means they aren't imminent threats to life or property.
You might be surprised at how little firearms training the average LEO gets. Most are trained in pistol and shotgun use, during day and low-light conditions for all of about 40 hours. TOTAL. They may have to do requalification shoots once or twice a year. That can take all of maybe 1/2 to 1 hour each - from walking in to walking out. I've taken a basic LE firearms course - 24 hours. I've taken 2 different firearms courses (relatively recently) for another 24 hours. I've done firearms courses in college (yes, one of my colleges offered a LE focused firearms course or three) for about 300 classroom and range hours total. I go shoot a few times per year... which is about 3x more often than most LEO go for skill development.
For CCW training? Yes. It's required in CA. I also got a state and national background check that's run at the same level as a PD Firearms background check. That's REQUIRED.
I consider any firearm on scene to be dangerous. I don't know who these people are when I first walk up and come into their home. Any weapon on scene should be treated as a danger. I agree most people that are going to have a firearm directly on them are going to be great people and a completely legal form. However, expect the worse, and hope for the best.
And sorry about my post. I should definitely clarify. We Never leave a gun on scene unsecured. We remove it from the proximity of the patient, and let PD/HP handle it beyond that. Then Document that we do so.
And sorry about the "chip" thing. That's my southern comin' out.
A firearm in and of itself isn't dangerous. People are dangerous. Almost anything I have within arm's reach can be made into a deadly or dangerous weapon. Heck, if you're not paying attention, I can reach for your ball-point pen and kill you with it... and if I can do it, so can an "EDP"... think about that one for a minute.
And if PD is NOT on scene, leaving it someplace unattended is worse than taking it with you, secured in a cabinet because once you take possession of it, you OWN the following events because you're the proximate cause...
The only people who are handling my firearm are myself, my family, or a LEO. I would never allow an ems provider to handle it.
If I'm conscious, I'm right there with you. It's not that I don't trust
me... it's that I don't trust
you. Ask me to secure the firearm and
I'll do it or I'll give you explicit, step-by-step instructions how to remove that firearm and holster as a unit. It's safer that way. I would rather keep it on my person as that way it's not out of my control.
And for those of you that advocate leaving a firearm unattended on scene, you have no control over that firearm once you leave, and you would be civilly and criminally liable because all the elements of negligence can be found against you for doing so, should there be any injury or death caused by someone that finds that firearm and uses it.
Duty of care: you found it, now you must dispo it to a responsible party
Breach of care: you left it on scene, you broke that duty.
Direct Cause: your action of leaving a firearm on scene means it's available for anyone to use, who then causes...
Harm - that unattended firearm gets used and harm comes to someone that otherwise wouldn't have.
Now that four points have been addressed: get out your checkbook... because you're going to be writing many zeroes to make the harmed person, "whole".
Oh, by that same act, pray that you're not found criminally negligent...
After all, while having PD on scene is a good thing for your safety/security, there might just be times that you don't discover the firearm until well into transport. Then what, pull over and wait? Your pulmonary edema patient who happens to be armed might come to additional harm should you choose that course of action. Think about that...
(The rest of us, especially me can only hope to become as wise...)
h34r:
