Civilian EMS?

[Phillyrube]

Pay EMS less than firefighters? Cheapskates!!

Fire Department may recruit civilians to staff ambulances

Ever since the Palo Alto Fire Department rolled out its ambulance service in 1974, its employees have distinguished themselves for their dual roles as firefighters and paramedics. A new proposal would change that by creating a new ambulance division staffed by civilian responders.

www.paloaltoonline.com

 

[CCCSD]

I’ve got sooo many stories about PAFD Para-Gods back in The Day…

 

[E tank]

Bid it out to the privates and be done with it.

 

[CCCSD]

Bid it out to the privates and be done with it.

PA is too snooty to do that. PAFD wants to control everything, otherwise they lose budget $$$ and their “prestige”.

 

[E tank]

PA is too snooty to do that. PAFD wants to control everything, otherwise they lose budget $$$ and their “prestige”.

thing is, prolly not too many places in palo alto that are more than 5 mins from a hospital.

 

[CCCSD]

thing is, prolly not too many places in palo alto that are more than 5 mins from a hospital.

Shhhhhhh…wanna give the Chief a stroke?

 

[FiremanMike]

Man I thought you guys would be thrilled that dedicated single role medics would be running the squad instead of stupid firemen.

Y’all should really look into the source of your irrational hatred of anything associated with the fire department.

 

[DrParasite]

Man I thought you guys would be thrilled that dedicated single role medics would be running the squad instead of stupid firemen.

Y’all should really look into the source of your irrational hatred of anything associated with the fire department.

Mike,

I'm thrilled with single role medics....

I'm not thrilled with the civilian's much lower pay, much worse retirement plan, and worse benefits, with a much higher run volume, compared to their "sworn" suppression counterparts.

and we don't even talk about how they will likely be treated as the redheaded stepchild of the department (which has occurred are previous departments)

 

[E tank]

Man I thought you guys would be thrilled that dedicated single role medics would be running the squad instead of stupid firemen.

Y’all should really look into the source of your irrational hatred of anything associated with the fire department.

Well, if someone could demonstrate the math where bloated, inefficient fire EMS is superior to a private ambulance company especially in a place like Palo Alto, I'm all ears.. fact is, most people just don't stay in ems like they do in suppression or law. Really tough way to make a living after you're 35-40 years old. Cycling firemen through the ambulance until they can't stand it anymore is an excessive way to spend money.

 

[FiremanMike]

Well, if someone could demonstrate the math where bloated, inefficient fire EMS is superior to a private ambulance company especially in a place like Palo Alto, I'm all ears.. fact is, most people just don't stay in ems like they do in suppression or law. Really tough way to make a living after you're 35-40 years old. Cycling firemen through the ambulance until they can't stand it anymore is an excessive way to spend money.

One can make cases that firemen don’t make good medics, but you’re literally the first person I’ve seen advocating for private ems to take over municipal 911. It is so extraordinarily rare that companies make it work that it’s laughable to suggest otherwise.

Private companies need to make money to survice

EMS is NOT self sustaining. Corners must be cut.

Let’s also not sit here and pretend that private ems doesn’t have their own glut of admin and cash sinks..

 

[CCCSD]

So

One can make cases that firemen don’t make good medics, but you’re literally the first person I’ve seen advocating for private ems to take over municipal 911. It is so extraordinarily rare that companies make it work that it’s laughable to suggest otherwise.

Private companies need to make money to survice

EMS is NOT self sustaining. Corners must be cut.

Let’s also not sit here and pretend that private ems doesn’t have their own glut of admin and cash sinks..

you work for PAFD then? Or are you just bleating the tired FD mantra about how there should be 5 paramedics on every engine, with a FD ambulance staffed by paramedics in order to provide any patient care because no one else is qualified..?

 

[PotatoMedic]

I'm all for fire based EMS. As long as it gets identical benefits and comparable if not better pay. (A single role medic should make more than a FF/EMT.). They perform 60-80% of the departments call volume. They are not second class employees. When fire based EMS figures that out I'll be supportive.

 

[FiremanMike]

So

you work for PAFD then? Or are you just bleating the tired FD mantra about how there should be 5 paramedics on every engine, with a FD ambulance staffed by paramedics in order to provide any patient care because no one else is qualified..?

Are you intentionally misreading my post so that you can go on one of your silly condescending rants?

Since you went there, I worked for over two decades in a metro area where everyone on scene was a paramedic, now I work at a smaller agency where medics are in short supply. One of these systems is better, and it’s not the one that’s so frequently touted on this board.

I honestly think the only reason people are such staunch supporters of less paramedics is because they reminisce about the old days when there was one medic in a sea of basics, so they looked like a god and no one else on scene knew when they were screwing up.

 

[VentMonkey]

I honestly think the only reason people are such staunch supporters of less paramedics is because they reminisce about the old days when there was one medic in a sea of basics, so they looked like a god and no one else on scene knew when they were screwing up.

Or, because there’s still no fact-based evidence stating that more = better.

 

[VentMonkey]

I'm all for fire based EMS. As long as it gets identical benefits and comparable if not better pay. (A single role medic should make more than a FF/EMT.). They perform 60-80% of the departments call volume. They are not second class employees. When fire based EMS figures that out I'll be supportive.

This. Plain and simple. A respectable division of such departments. But, you need buy in from fire and EMS people within the department equally as well.

Heh? Funny, almost like we need to figure out a co-existing model not whose it better…

 

[FiremanMike]

Or, because there’s still no fact-based evidence stating that more = better.

Conversely there’s no fact-based evidence that less is better.

I’ve worked both ways. The ability to have multiple brains in the room is a superior experience for me.

 

[ffemt8978]

Conversely there’s no fact-based evidence that less is better.

I’ve worked both ways. The ability to have multiple brains in the room is a superior experience for me.

And for some people that experience may be the opposite. It would be nice if we had evidence based criteria to form our policy decisions on instead of relying on anecdotes, personal experience, or even 'this seems like it would be a good idea'

 

[CCCSD]

Conversely there’s no fact-based evidence that less is better.

I’ve worked both ways. The ability to have multiple brains in the room is a superior experience for me.

Monkeys and a football. Been watching it happen for over 30 years.
A good EMT is far better than a lousy Paramedic.

 

[FiremanMike]

Monkeys and a football. Been watching it happen for over 30 years.
A good EMT is far better than a lousy Paramedic.

That’s an absurdly inane statement.

A good medic is better than a bad EMT.
A good LPN is better than a bad RN.
A good doctor is better than a bad NP.
A good dental hygienist is better than a bad dentist.

You can take that argument and plug anything into x and y and it will always be true.

I want A players, I don’t particularly care about your cert level, but in my own corner of the world, A players don’t stay emt basic for long.

 

[VentMonkey]

I’m not subscribing to the anti-fire medic trope. A good medic is a good medic is a good medic. Regardless of system or service. End of story.

@FiremanMike it was never about bragging about being the only ALS provider to me. What it was about was being able to think critically on that level (mostly) alone, which in turn, i always felt made a stronger clinician.

Delegation got better, critical thinking skills got better, and I’d best be willing to remain on par with said responsibilities and deliver that level of care.

Also, earning the respect of everyone on scene through command presence whether they were advanced or “basic” level providers was also a real thing.

All this to say, now I mostly show up do some fist bumps and thank yous, but that was years-worth of earned regard. Never assumed.