Call outs

NomadicMedic

NomadicMedic

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I'm curious how your agency deals with sick callouts. We have some rather lax rules regarding callouts. There's talk about changing these rules to create a point accrual system based on "unexcused callouts". That is, callouts without a doctors note.

Do you have a good system in place ? Could you share your SOP with me?
 
If you have time accrued, you can use it.

Our contract does technically list the things you can use sick leave for, but it's very broad (as it kind of needs to be). There is a clause that says you can be required to provide a doctor's note but the past practice is that is only used for extended leaves, or if someone is requesting light-duty.

Obviously OJI's are a different thing entirely.

We do have people that are known, or suspected of abusing their sick leave; I think that's probably a pretty common thing for places that don't have strict policies. We also have disciplined people who were caught doing so. That may be something that helps cut down on the abuse.

I would caution against requiring a doctor's note for every illness; if I have to get checked out because I have the flu or a bad cold all it's going to do is piss me off. Not to mention that a "mental health day" is, in my personal opinion, a very legitimate reason to take the day off.

If it really is a problem, requiring a note for 3+ shifts off seems appropriate, but for every time, or even one for everytime if someone has called in a lot seems like a good way to stir up trouble.
 
triemal04 said:
I would caution against requiring a doctor's note for every illness; if I have to get checked out because I have the flu or a bad cold all it's going to do is piss me off.
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This. So much this. No way am I going to the doctor and paying 50 bucks just to get a note so I can "have an excuse." (Maybe I should just be calling the ambulance instead?)

We get issued infraction points for calling in sick. And its double points for calling in over a mandated shift. All it has done has hacked people off to no end.

I think the policy has to be pretty wide and far reaching. If it seems to be a chronic issue (no pun intended), then maybe, look into that individual's issue, but to blanket everyone with infractions every time they call in sick is a horrible idea. Some people are going to abuse the system, yes, but to punish people for something totally outside their control is a good way to alienate employees, make them hate management, and in general, piss them off and injure morale.
 
At my last 911 job we all started with 5 sick days and then earned 1 sick day(12 hours) a month. It was capped at200 and something hours.

we had 6 call outs a year where there were no questions asked. On the 7th and subsequent call out you needed to provide a doctors note. If you are out of sick time you can borrow some or dip into banked ot or just not be paid. Anything that would put you out for more than 3 consecutive shifts required a note and did not count toward you 6. If you have a pre existing condition that results in more than 4 call outs a year.. there is paperwork your doc can fill out. Your call out for the existing condition do not count toward the total and do not need a doctors note(you need to fill out the paper with your doc every year or 2)(we work a 4 on 4 off rotation).

They are looking at changing the system as they feel we earn too many sick days and don't like the fact that 90+% of medics all use up the 6 per year.


if our doc charged us for the note we could submit the receipt for reimbursement.
 
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Agreed. That's why the new proposed SOP is to allow several, up to 4, unexcused absences to not affect your status. The quick example is this, you call out sick unexcused. If you don't call out sick again within 60 days, that sick day falls off your points list. If you call out again, they add another 60 days before both of those callouts fall off your point list. A third (or fourth) callout will result in some sort of discipline. It's simply to eliminate the unexcused callouts from the people that abuse the system. Staying at home, no problem taking your kid to the doctor, no problem. Any type of verifiable excuse, no problem. Calling out on the 15th of every month, that's a problem. Calling out any time you're working night shift on the weekend, that's a problem.
 
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DEmedic said:
A third callout will result in some sort of discipline.
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Is that on a case to case basis, or for each and every person who goes out sick 3 times without a note?

That's potentially going to, justifiable so, piss off people if everytime you call in sick 3 times without a note you get disciplined.

What if you get a bad cold, and call in sick. 55 days later you get a bad cold, and call in sick. 55 days after that, you get a bad cold, call in sick, and if I read that right, you get disciplined for being sick 3 times in almost 4 months.

If sick leave abuse is a problem then it needs to be curbed, but the way to do that is you discipline the people doing so, not by making things difficult for the ones who aren't.
 
I know they were still working on how the timeframe was going to lay out, but it'll be an across-the-board thing.

You simply can't make excuses for some people and not for others. If you a going to have a policy that has hard and fast rules as to when you can call out unexcused, you'll have to enforce that across the entire system. Without a doctors note, how can you verify if somebody is really sick?

We were approached about it by some members of the committee that are working on this thing, and asked what we thought. They were going to count ALL sick absences, with a doctors note or without. That would really piss people off. I don't quite know how well this is going to work, but they've got to do something.

Doesn't seem like an easy solution to this. My thought is, when you're sick… You're sick. Take the sick time. However, the people that abuse the call out system screw it up for everyone else.
 
Tough spot to be in. If you (your department anyway) can catch those people that are abusing it, then the easy solution is to discipline them to the fullest than can be done in accordance with your department's policies and your contract. Of course, catching someone in a defenscible way isn't that easy.

How much of a problem is there? I mean, is this just a few people, or is this more of an institutional problem? Is there a way that the people rewriting the policy (or anyone else with input) can get ahold of those people and bluntly tell them "because of your BS we're going to change our sick leave policy in a way that screws a lot of people. Oh, and everyone will know this was done because of you." Or simply make a department wide announcement that, due to abuse, the policy MAY be changed to what you mentioned and give them some time to self-police?
 
If you have PTO then you can use that for call outs. If you don't have any PTO or don't want to use it you will not get pay.

We really don't have issues with people calling out sick. If we do then it will be brought up to management and they will have a sit down and a verbal/written warning will be issued.

If you are going to be out for a while or on light duty generally they require a doctors note. If you are out for a long enough period of time you will have to do the physical test/lift test again and be placed on FTO time.
 
DEmedic said:
You simply can't make excuses for some people and not for others. If you a going to have a policy that has hard and fast rules as to when you can call out unexcused, you'll have to enforce that across the entire system. Without a doctors note, how can you verify if somebody is really sick?

Doesn't seem like an easy solution to this. My thought is, when you're sick… You're sick. Take the sick time. However, the people that abuse the call out system screw it up for everyone else.
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Ours is based on attendance patterns, Like lets say I called out today, and I call out every monday I'm scheduled or with a specific partner, Or every dayshift.

Our system is pretty laxed on calling out, to an extent, Most of us are pretty reliable to be here, I think I called off once this year entirely, and that was because my hot water heater exploded last week.

If theres a noted pattern, its a written warning, then a week off, then out the door.

If your a NC/NS. your toast unless its really really reasonable. Like the one girl who was a NC/NS turns out she was in a accident on her way to work. and didn't get to call about it till 3 hours in her shift. Reasonable. If you forgot.. forget it
 
our system is screwed up. plain and simple.

after so many call outs you are put on doctors note. this number fluctuates depending on the person. well, it's not call outs, but instances. so if you are sick for 2 back to back days it's one call out. or it can be if you are out sick 40 hours in the year, regardless of the situation. it's messed up. once you are on doctors note, you are supposed to bring in a doctors note for every subsequent sickout. however, it's barely enforced. you can be written up and disciplined for excessive sick time.

they can also request a doctors note if you get denied for a vacation day and you call out sick.

What happens is people are sick come into work because they don't want to be disciplined for calling out sick. so they infect everyone else. or people don't bother putting in a vacation request, they just call out sick.

I think if you have the sick time in your bank, you should be able to use it without penalty. the only time management should get involved in when you don't have any more time in your bank and you are still calling out sick. Even the expert agree, if you are sick, stay home and don't infect everyone else!
 
As much as it sucks, I think it's important to make sure that while the department encourages people to not call out all the time, they should encourage people to call out when they are sick.

I wish infectious illnesses could be counted as on-the-job issues. I get 2 bad colds every year now since I've been spending all this time cooped up in the box with these sick people.

I tend to use sick time for sick kids or child care failures. It's hard to get documentation for "my babysitter called out sick, I have to wait for my husband to get home before I can go in" but that only takes 3-4 hours.

I probably have about 6 occurrences a year, but a lot more near-misses than that.
 
We can call off 2 times within a 90 day period with no questions asked. If you are gone 2 shifts in a row you have to have a doctors note and it only counts as one call off.

If you miss a third day, you get a warning. From that day you cannot miss another day for 6 months. If you do it is a final warning for another 6 months. And if you miss again you are terminated.
 
Not many issues with calling out sick here: can call out for about anything. We can use sick time, annual leave or comp time.
Annual Leave maxes out at 288 hrs then you have to use any thing over that by the end of the year. You earn it at 4, 6, and 8hrs a pay period: depending on how long you have worked. If you quit or get canned you lose your annual leave
Sick Leave has no max (4hrs a pay period). You quit, get fired or retire they pay out your sick leave.
So I build up my sick leave; and use annual for everything.

If you call off too often management can ask for a doctors note. If you are out sick more than 3 or 4 days straight they make you go see doctor here to get cleared to go back to work, but it is free so not a big deal.

When I started I was told by my boss that I could take time off for vision problems: "Sorry, I just see myself coming into work today" or mental health "Need a day off cause I am going crazy". LOL
 
At my company, every employee PT or FT has PTO that accures based on hours worked and years with the company (more for FT). There is no difference in PTO for vacation, sick or personal, all the same. As long as the call out is within reasonable time frame no foul. It only becomes a problem when call outs occur three days in a row (DR note now required) or a certain number (#unknown) per month and calender year.
 
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