Become EMT-B in 14 days

[coloradoemt]

I thought this was amusing if not rediculous. I am sure there are those smart enough to absorb everything in this period of time, but I am not one of them. I needed the 5 month version. It is my opinion that they would be cranking out NREMT's that really didn't know much...

http://www.unitekcollege.com/emt/fasttrack2.php

 

[Summit]

$3500 for the pleasure! Wow!

14 days? I'm all about immersive learning but jeez!

I did mine in a 30 day class + 40hrs of clinicals and that's about as fast as I think anyone ought to.

 

[rescuecpt]

The County does a 14-day class around here once in a while, usually in the summer - but it's 14 days of class and then there's about a month or two before the state exam during which some EMT's I talked to said they were required to do more ride-alongs, ER time, autopsy time, etc than we did in my class - I guess to help make up for some of the things you would normally see doing your ride alongs with a normal length class.

 

[daemonicusxx]

i dont know about a 14 day class, im just not sure how much you can really learn in that short a time. i think i agree with coloradoemt when he says that they would just be cranking out less than sufficent EMT's. sad to say that i work for a 3rd party company in dallas that employs a few of those. maybe they took the short course.

 

[Jon]

Originally posted by rescuecpt@Jan 3 2005, 01:55 PM
The County does a 14-day class around here once in a while, usually in the summer - but it's 14 days of class and then there's about a month or two before the state exam during which some EMT's I talked to said they were required to do more ride-alongs, ER time, autopsy time, etc than we did in my class - I guess to help make up for some of the things you would normally see doing your ride alongs with a normal length class.

Our county has done a 15 day class set up timewise to end with the regular 3-night a week class that goes from May to begining of August. I'm not sure how it went, but it would almost make sense for highschool and college students who have summers free. The idea makes sense, but I would expect you would need to be "smarter than the average bear" to actually benifit from the class. (as in someone who actually ENJOYS 5-day-a-week classes for 3 weeks.


Jon

 

[MMiz]

I saw that website a month or so ago and wasn't sure what to think.

I did my EMT class in six weeks. I went M-F 9 AM - 5 PM and came in on one weekend for my hazmat and extrication training. After the class I had a month worth of clinicals.

I absolutely loved the format of the course, and I couldn't have become an EMT any other way. It allowed me to become an EMT over the summer, and I can't even begin to tell you how much more I enjoyed it than the longer format.

I initially tried the semester-long course that met three times a week from 4-8 I believe. I absolutely hated it, and I came to class tired and stressed after already attending a full day of class at college. After three days I dropped it, and decided that I would take it in the summer "Academy" format.

I loved taking the course in such an intense format. I would wake up, study for an hour before class, go to class, then drive home, and study until I went to bed at night. Some days like the AED, trauma, CPR classes didn't require as much studying, so in general I absolutely loved the class format.

15 days though, that's too short in my opinion.

 

[SafetyPro2]

Originally posted by MMiz@Jan 7 2005, 09:03 PM
I initially tried the semester-long course that met three times a week from 4-8 I believe. I absolutely hated it, and I came to class tired and stressed after already attending a full day of class at college. After three days I dropped it, and decided that I would take it in the summer "Academy" format.

I was in the same boat, Matt. I was all signed up for a semester-long class at a local community college, but had to drop it when I got a new job that required 1-2 weeks of travel a month.

I ended up signing-up the next year for a 5 week course that met 4 to 10 PM every Monday through Thursday. I was able to adjust my travel schedule to leave those 5 weeks free and flex my hours. I ended up working from 6:30 AM to about 3 PM, then driving to class for another 6 hours. Was painful, but it went pretty fast and was worth it. Plus, the company I did it through was the only EMT program in the county that had a deal for the ride-alongs to be done with LA County Fire Dept. Paramedic squads (a la Johnny and Roy)...most programs have you ride with private ambulances on interfacility transports. During my ride-along shift, I got to see a lot more real-world EMS situations, including a traumatic full arrest (motorcycle accident) that was my first experience doing chest compressions.

 

[MCSHughes]

Consider the 10 day CCEMT-P or 8 day PNCCT classes, same thing. Gets you in, out, and generally fails the ones that can't keep up. I think a 14 day EMT course isn't very good, but it may be reflective of the times in a sense. Fast food, drive through banking, fast class...

How many EMT-A's REALLY remember six different types of shock anyway? And, do they NEED to?

Something to think about. Personally, I'd be a little worried about two week wonders.

 

[Luno]

While my personal opinion when I heard this was the same as most of you, on further thought, I don't think it is as bad as most people think. Here's why.

In my opinion, EMT class only trains you to be field trainable. Frankly, when I was on the rigs, I don't care if you show up like Ricky Rescue, with your own pulse oximeter on your belt, personalized BP cuff, and cardiologist Littman, you're still a rookie, and I can't even trust your BPs. Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before your 1000th patient, and atleast a couple non-recoverable codes. The majority of the learning is done in the field, we used to have a saying, "the lesson needed to be taught, thankfully nobody died." EMT class has very little that is taught in a practical means, can you deliver a baby, yeah, mostly common sense, Epi, okay, there's a couple hour lecture, BP, more practice than a teaching point, O2, well, pretty self explainatory, AED, there's brain surgery, Bleeding control, hmmm, covered in First Aid, GSW/Stabbing, see bleeding control, Cardiac Emergencies... well, there's an hour lecture max, CVAs... looks like a carrot, acts like a carrot, it's a carrot, long bone stabilization, basic again, behavioral emergencies, sorry, either you understand or you don't, scene safety? that's subjective. The tables, hmmm, you might need them for the test, and they're a good guideline in the field, but if the kid is blue, they probably have a depressed resp rate.

As a certification goes, I think it's good, let's get more people interested in the field, and get them to where they will learn something. That's just my opinion,
Luke

 

[rescuecpt]

Originally posted by Luno@Jan 8 2005, 07:52 PM
While my personal opinion when I heard this was the same as most of you, on further thought, I don't think it is as bad as most people think. Here's why.

In my opinion, EMT class only trains you to be field trainable. Frankly, when I was on the rigs, I don't care if you show up like Ricky Rescue, with your own pulse oximeter on your belt, personalized BP cuff, and cardiologist Littman, you're still a rookie, and I can't even trust your BPs. Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before your 1000th patient, and atleast a couple non-recoverable codes. The majority of the learning is done in the field, we used to have a saying, "the lesson needed to be taught, thankfully nobody died." EMT class has very little that is taught in a practical means, can you deliver a baby, yeah, mostly common sense, Epi, okay, there's a couple hour lecture, BP, more practice than a teaching point, O2, well, pretty self explainatory, AED, there's brain surgery, Bleeding control, hmmm, covered in First Aid, GSW/Stabbing, see bleeding control, Cardiac Emergencies... well, there's an hour lecture max, CVAs... looks like a carrot, acts like a carrot, it's a carrot, long bone stabilization, basic again, behavioral emergencies, sorry, either you understand or you don't, scene safety? that's subjective. The tables, hmmm, you might need them for the test, and they're a good guideline in the field, but if the kid is blue, they probably have a depressed resp rate.

As a certification goes, I think it's good, let's get more people interested in the field, and get them to where they will learn something. That's just my opinion,
Luke

I agree, as long as there is someone in the field who is going to actually show them the ropes. Some places let brand new EMT's ride on their own.

 

[Summit]

Originally posted by Luno@Jan 8 2005, 07:52 PM
Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before your 1000th patient, and atleast a couple non-recoverable codes.

1000th? That's like 5-10 years in my current service.

 

[ffemt8978]

Originally posted by Luno@Jan 8 2005, 05:52 PM
Frankly, I don't think that an EMT should be considered an EMT before [...] atleast a couple non-recoverable codes.

I do agree with this part, though.

 

[Luno]

Okay, 1000, while it seems like a nice round number, here's why, in a busy EMS system, working as a pro, you should be able to hit this number in less than a year, i.e. 10 call outs per shift, this is a very simple "vetting" process. Working a detroit/mod detroit schedule, i.e. 3 days out of 9, at 10 calls a shift, you have 121 working days. This job field is about repetition, you don't get proficient at things by being taught, you get proficient by practice. You may have an idea of how to splint a long bone, but you get good at it by practice. One year/1000 pt count seems to be an adequate measure of a person's ability and commitment. While I don't think that they should be not allowed to perform the work of an EMT, I do think there should be a sort of apprenticeship program, where your 1000th patient "graduates" you to the journeyman level. Muscle memory takes a minimum of 10,000 repetitions, for multiple skills and changing conditions, I think that 1000 repetitions is a bare minimum. As far as the non-recoverables go, I think everyone in the field needs to watch someone die, then you realize the fight that you're going into. While not to say that people who haven't aren't capable, people who have seen someone die, despite their best efforts they just haven't seen what it's like to lose. I think there should be a rating system, based on patient count. While I thought I had seen it all, at 500 pts, 501 threw me a curve ball, I think 1000 pts gives someone a broad enough base to work through 99% of things that they will come across.

 

[rescuecpt]

The only problem with that is in some places (non-professional for example) you don't get that same volume. Does that make me less of an EMT? I hope not. That would go back to the discussion we had in another thread about vollies not being "real" EMTs.

I'd like to think, that while I don't personally get 1,000 calls a year, I'm still a damn good EMT and do right by my patients. Could I be better if I got 1,000 calls a year? Maybe. But maybe I'd become a burn out and stop caring.

I guess there's no real way to measure except an EMT-off. What do you say Luno?

 

[coloradoemt]

I agree with what Luno has to say but just the point that repitition makes you proficient. But I also agree with rescuecpt in that a lack of call volume does not make a person less of an EMT. As a volunteer myself, on days off at home, I have run up to 6 calls in a day. What we dont have in steady call volume we make up for somewhat with trainings, 3-4 a month. Granted training can't fully take the place of calls, but it helps keep your skills up. I have met some awesome volunteer EMT's. I have also met some EMT's who are in it just to drive the rig and could care less about running a call. I have met some full time folks who are at the same levels. Burn outs maybe?

I really do not want to get into a big argument about who is better than who. To me no one should be worried about that. One EMT should want to be and want everyone around them to be, the best they can be. It is just my opinion that if you are an EMT no matter where you are or what your call volume is I respect you until you do something stupid. I also will trust you know what you are doing until you tell me different or do something stupid. If you are in the EMS business you have my respect for putting yourself there and caring enough to be there.

 

[Luno]

Erika, okay, when/where? Really, I'm just kidding!!! I am not one to draw the generalization that vollies are/are not EMTs/FFs/etc... I will say that ColoradoEMT does have a good point, if you don't get the calls, you can always make up for it by training, sometimes it's better than post gaming calls. I remain fairly convinced that 1000 is a good number, but that's just my opinion, everyone has opinions, and other anatomical references.... I think that training should be used toward that number, but by no means am I anyone who is on the NR board, or even on a rig anymore, but I've worked with alot of EMTs, and formed my opinion accordingly. Erika, you're a volunteer, if you had a 1000 pt contacts in a year, you'd have no life, and would probably no longer have a job. However, I do think that 1000 patients real or simulated (thanks Co.EMT) is a good benchmark to shoot for, not in a year, (unless you're pro, and in a busy urban system) but over your career. By the way implementation of this would be in Luke's ideal world, which is far from reality..........

 

[rescuecpt]

Luno, you know I'm only playin' with ya....

I hear what you're saying.

In my FD (not very busy) we have drills almost every week. Three weeks of the month we do individual skill reviews - I pick a skill or topic, present a short review of it, then we practice on each other (traction splinting for example). The fourth week we do a "live" drill in conjunction with the FF's... whatever day they're doing their vehicle extrication or smokehouse or whatnot, I arrange to have them throw a couple "patients" our way. This way my crew gets to work in a more real-to-life situation, with the lights, sirens, radios, yelling, etc. We drive around the neighborhood until we get called and then proceed to the scene as we would to a normal call (a little slower of course for safety). We debrief it afterwards of course.

At the Corps, since we're much busier, we only drill 1x a month as a group - but since there's a probie on my shift we do the same sort of skill reviews almost every shift. She hasn't started her EMT class yet but between the Corp's probie training and our practices she's almost as good as some full fledged EMT's I see. It helps that one of my crew members is in medic class and the other teaches EMT-B.

 

[Wingnut]

Ok opinion from a total newbie??

Well we have no short programs like that here, we only have the one regular semster long course for EMT-B. Also in our state we only have EMT-B's and paramedics, I don't know if EMT-I programs would warrant a different schedule for classes. BUT, after all the time I put into class and clinicals, I sure as hell wouldn't put myself out there alone to answer calls. We were pushed to learn a lot of information in our short class time, the clinical time itself wasn't long enough to produce a good amount of experience and we were learning what we needed to pass the national registry, not what is actually practiced out in the field. Fortunately, if I was to get hired by our county EMS I would have 3 months of training through our system before they'd consider me an EMT.

I'm confident in my abilities and knowledge in BLS, But I am not confident that I could handle a call efficiently with no mistakes, let alone perfection. I definitely couldn't see a 14 day class being sufficient.

Maybe it's like those PCI schools where you pay a bunch of money to get a degree after a few weeks of study in the mail and no one will ever hire you with it?

 

[rescuecpt]

Originally posted by Wingnut@Jan 11 2005, 08:30 PM
Ok opinion from a total newbie??

Well we have no short programs like that here, we only have the one regular semster long course for EMT-B. Also in our state we only have EMT-B's and paramedics, I don't know if EMT-I programs would warrant a different schedule for classes. BUT, after all the time I put into class and clinicals, I sure as hell wouldn't put myself out there alone to answer calls. We were pushed to learn a lot of information in our short class time, the clinical time itself wasn't long enough to produce a good amount of experience and we were learning what we needed to pass the national registry, not what is actually practiced out in the field. Fortunately, if I was to get hired by our county EMS I would have 3 months of training through our system before they'd consider me an EMT.

I'm confident in my abilities and knowledge in BLS, But I am not confident that I could handle a call efficiently with no mistakes, let alone perfection. I definitely couldn't see a 14 day class being sufficient.

Maybe it's like those PCI schools where you pay a bunch of money to get a degree after a few weeks of study in the mail and no one will ever hire you with it?

People get hired with the 14 day class here all the time.

I think a lot of it comes from your background too.

I went into EMS after having been a lifeguard for 6 years, a medic first aid instructor for 2 years, and after having lived in a foreign country doing adventure guide sort of stuff. I had a lot of experience with emergency situations - I've been to hospitals around the world, doctors offices, on life flights - but all before I was ever an EMT.

Of course, I still had to learn the "etiquette" of EMS and how to actually RUN a call.

Every person is in a different situation, some do well with 14 days, some don't... it's up to their field supervisors to supplement their training if necessary.

 

[Wingnut]

Good point, maybe it's a personality thing or a zone of comfort thing. I came into EMT after 2 years of being a veterinary tech. (we had some emergency calls, but of course it's very different than this.) and 8 years of pharmacy so I wasn't totally foreign to the medical field, but very unfamiliar with emergency situations.