Basics before Advanced

That is so true.

The phrase "physcian extender" was coined for us almost 40 years ago. At that time our skills and knowledge were unique to us and physicians. Unfortunately it is used loosely today and holds no legal bearing. PAs and NPs are two of the legal physician extenders. Their extensive education and clinical hours give them that privilege.
Hello,to you all...Long time no see... And you know why? Becouse your lazyness,in cases that I asked you to think a little in...
I gave some medical quizes,that ordered to extend you scope of thinking - not practice,but thinking...But you prefer to argue page after page about importance of knowelge,but exept of few forum members,I did see a lot of interest in medical...
You can start to say,that "I'm wrong",that "I dont understand US reality" e.t.c.... But result is here - In this forum you have much more discussion about managment issues that medical... Why that? I don't know...Much easier to talk about " adrenaline in blood" and "sirens in the night"..But when I gave something more complicated that ABC-Evacuation...Most of a forum members prefered to ignore it... Yes... May by you shouldn know that from you college studies,but even no intention for self education??!!
At final... I'm disappoited... Basics...It's not a BLS... It's a CLINICAL (and CRITICAL)THINKING!!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Hello,to you all...Long time no see... And you know why? Becouse your lazyness,in cases that I asked you to think a little in...
I gave some medical quizes,that ordered to extend you scope of thinking - not practice,but thinking...But you prefer to argue page after page about importance of knowelge,but exept of few forum members,I did see a lot of interest in medical...
You can start to say,that "I'm wrong",that "I dont understand US reality" e.t.c.... But result is here - In this forum you have much more discussion about managment issues that medical... Why that? I don't know...Much easier to talk about " adrenaline in blood" and "sirens in the night"..But when I gave something more complicated that ABC-Evacuation...Most of a forum members prefered to ignore it... Yes... May by you shouldn know that from you college studies,but even no intention for self education??!!
At final... I'm disappoited... Basics...It's not a BLS... It's a CLINICAL (and CRITICAL)THINKING!!

Not that it matters what you think of me, or what I think of you, but here's the deal...(PLEASE NOTE - these are my personal opinions and do not reflect the opinions of the rest of the Community Leaders or EMTLife.com)

You show up here a few months ago and start talking about the Russian language EMS forum you were a part of. Your second post is part of your Quiz. As a matter of fact, over half of your posts to this date have been about your Quizzes.

Without ever giving our forum members a chance to get to know you first, you show up and start acting like Alex Trebek and "order" us to extend our scope of thinking. I'm sorry, but I don't feel like being quizzed by some self appointed examiner that thinks or acts like they're better than me. I have no problem being quizzed as a part of my efforts to expand my knowledge base, but around here it's going to have to meet a couple of criteria first. 1) It must be part of a genuine effort to learn on everyone's part and not an effort to make one person appear or feel better than another (and that's as touchy-feely as I get). 2) It must be from someone I respect here, and around here there is only one way to get respect. You earn it by becoming a productive member of our forum, proving that you are not someone suffering from a Cranial-Rectal Inversion.

You seem to think that all we talk about is the importance of knowledge or management issues. If you took a couple of minutes to actually think about what is posted here, you'll see that we all agree that knowledge is important. Where we disagree is the IMPLEMENTATION of that knowledge.

And yes, we talk about management issues because like it or not, it is a HUGE part of EMS - no matter where you are.

In closing, you said
It's a CLINICAL (and CRITICAL)THINKING!!
. That's about the only thing I agree with you about.


To all of our other forum members, I apologize for my soapbox rant but I wanted this to serve as an example to all of our current and future members.
 
Your stuff seemed a little far out there and beyond my understanding of medicine. You guys over in Israel must really know you stuff! Also, your writing ability leaves something to be desired, although I'm very impressed given it's not your native language. I hope you continue to post here because I'm sure I could learn a thing or two from you.

Oh, and before you go calling us lazy, remember who you're talking about...the richest and most powerful country in the world that invented ems as we know it today ;)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Not that it matters what you think of me, or what I think of you, but here's the deal...(PLEASE NOTE - these are my personal opinions and do not reflect the opinions of the rest of the Community Leaders or EMTLife.com)
Deal...Ok..But should I give my opinion also?
You show up here a few months ago and start talking about the Russian language EMS forum you were a part of. Your second post is part of your Quiz. As a matter of fact, over half of your posts to this date have been about your Quizzes.
...and got "warning" for publishing advertisment(exept of membership I have no finanicial connection..)By the way,it was a call to cooperate..But who cares..
Without ever giving our forum members a chance to get to know you first, you show up and start acting like Alex Trebek and "order" us to extend our scope of thinking. I'm sorry, but I don't feel like being quizzed by some self appointed examiner that thinks or acts like they're better than me. I have no problem being quizzed as a part of my efforts to expand my knowledge base, but around here it's going to have to meet a couple of criteria first. 1) It must be part of a genuine effort to learn on everyone's part and not an effort to make one person appear or feel better than another (and that's as touchy-feely as I get). 2) It must be from someone I respect here, and around here there is only one way to get respect. You earn it by becoming a productive member of our forum, proving that you are not someone suffering from a Cranial-Rectal Inversion.
Well yee...I don't know who is Alex Trebek.... I order no-one...I gave an option to think about clinical case - that a way to share knowlege in medicine... My ego is well maintaned WITHOUT EMSlife also,so you can be sure,that I don't want to show nothing... I'm not better than you...Ok?
And,I'm sorry...My knowlege in anatomy,not good enough to emagine cranio-rectal inversion:rolleyes:
You seem to think that all we talk about is the importance of knowledge or management issues. If you took a couple of minutes to actually think about what is posted here, you'll see that we all agree that knowledge is important. Where we disagree is the IMPLEMENTATION of that knowledge.

And yes, we talk about management issues because like it or not, it is a HUGE part of EMS - no matter where you are.
Huge...Yes,but not a biggest one..Biggest one is a MEDICINE...
I'm not living in US but I'm generaly familiar with your system-still medicine more important than managment...
To all of our other forum members, I apologize for my soapbox rant but I wanted this to serve as an example to all of our current and future members.
To scare all others that would like to post a clinical case???

toGuardian....THANKS!!
P.S. Beeng rich and powerful,doesn't mean NOT to be lazy!:P
 
I always start with the simple basics / "old horse medicine" first. It is amazing what can be fixed with simple Oxygen and coached breathing " take nice slow deep breaths".

I agree with that. IF you can't do basic Pt assesment and effective BLS skills you have no buisness doing ALS skills. There are too many EMTs and go to Medic school without mastering the simple basic and fail out their first day of pratical because they aren't good EMTs.
 
I order no-one...I gave an option to think about clinical case - that a way to share knowlege in medicine...
And because a limited few chose to respond, you come back and call our members lazy? You said you gave the option (to particpate or not). Most chose not to, sorry.

Going along with ffemt8978 said, if you would have came here, earned the respect of being a knowledgable, contributing member, you probably would have received a greater response.

Chimp
 
This is a tough one for me. I think one needs a broad didactic base but at the end of the day what do we do? We take people to the hospital. Too many these days seem to be addicted to the technical imparitave. If you can get it to your hands please do so...otherwise stow it, I could care less whether or not you are going to med school when you grow up.

Egg

SMC said:
Why do I need to understand VO2 ? I see my patient for a short periods of time. I have my ETCO2 and my SPO2 and I will oxygenate my patient if needed during my short treatment time. The Dr. and the RN's at the hospital are trained for more long term treatment. The overwhelming majority of the EMS professionals in the field are not RN/paramedics. It's good you know and understand those things, but the majority of us don't and I don't think we need to.

*sigh*

And we wonder why no one respects us...........People who accept mediocrity are destined to a life of it..............Come on guys, would it really kill you to learn something new about the job you do day in and day out? I mean heaven forbid!
 
Ahhh! I was looking for an intelligent debate.

Do you like stories? I like to tell stories!

I became an EMT in 1994. When I was a new EMT, I was excited about my new profession. I was young, energetic, motivated, willing to learn everything that I could. Two new friends (a medic and an EMT) were having a conversation and the medic began ranting about how a BLS crew he backed up didn’t know the difference between right sided and left sided heart failure. I didn’t know either, but I wouldn’t dare ask! I was too embarrassed after hearing his rant! As soon as I got home I opened up my EMT book, and thoroughly searched for the answer. It wasn’t there.

Too bad that medic intimidated me by his complaint. I could have learned the difference.

Soon after graduating medic school in 1997, I taunted a medic for not knowing what VQ mismatch was. At the time, I understood it very well, and I explained it to him in detail. Could I do that today? Not without reviewing the text first!

I have been hearing about this trend of “dumbing down” the curriculum from the time I was in EMT school, and it still continues to this day. I hear about it from teachers in other areas as well. Math teachers used to complain all the time about how students should be required to know “proofs”.

Yes, I do agree with you that more in-depth detail means a higher quality education. But a well educated medic/emt doesn’t automatically translate into a good medic/emt.

If I listed all the medics I know whom I would trust with a family member, I doubt many of them would know what VQ mismatch was. The only two exceptions I can think of are if the medic was also an instructor, or a student of some other medical discipline (RN, PA, etc).

Before the first time I ever drove a car, I had many years of “driving education”. From early childhood, I was playing driving games, driving go-carts / bumper cars, observing other drivers, and learning all the basic traffic laws. Before I even shifted the car into drive for the first time, I was quite familiar with all the necessary concepts. I had a perfect score on my written permit test. I had high marks on all my written exams in driver’s ed! But even after I was qualified to drive all by myself, I wouldn’t dare say I was a good driver. That took plenty of hands-on experience.

Oh, I’d love to go on… but I’ve spent too much time already. I’ll let others get a few words in first! Remember, I am not completely disagreeing with your opinion! I encourage opinions! I am merely offering some food for thought.
 
Very good points, application of the knowledge as in clinical skills is essential. Without the knowledge though, one is just "performing" or "acting" without really knowing the reason why and accepts everything as face value.

This is why so many EMT's & medics are hesitant for any changes. For example trendelenburg to even CISD, even though both have been repeated in several hundred studies and years of research, not to work, we continue.

Without the knowledge, all we have is performing personnel. Not really knowing the "full picture" can be detrimental. My question is why not give the full picture?

For example I always taught the full hemodynamic lecture to basic when explaining blood pressures. It proved to be less confusing to learn something right the first time, than to go back to school later and re-learn something. Ironically, basic always had a higher score than most advanced students, because they did not already have preconceived ideas.

The difference between good medics and half arse ones is the desire and "want" to learn. Instead of stopping at your basic book, maybe if you had researched and looked past, you would had found the answer. Again, we must stop the traditional mentality of describing that everything is found in the basic course and texts. In actuality it is a very poor, poor representation of emergency medicine. You see my Basic EMT book had the pathophysiology of right failure and left, again we did "dumb down" the EMT curriculum in 1993. This was met by resistance of many educators that knew the potential effects that we are now seeing.

We expect our basics to have the knowledge and skills, but we are not teaching, nor providing avenues to meet those expectations. Yet, again how many instructors are informing students that they must go outside their comfort zone and read other educational materials and demand such? Yes, the basic text is needed as one of the required books, but NOT the sole text.

Hopefully, with the proposed new curriculum we will see the EMT length increase by 20-30%, requiring more in-depth education.

R/r 911
 
Warning: I guess I was bored.. this is long, but I think it is valuable!

Very good points, application of the knowledge as in clinical skills is essential. Without the knowledge though, one is just "performing" or "acting" without really knowing the reason why and accepts everything as face value.

Agreed

This is why so many EMT's & medics are hesitant for any changes. For example trendelenburg to even CISD, even though both have been repeated in several hundred studies and years of research, not to work, we continue.

Here I disagree. "This is why": unsubstantiated cause and effect argument. Sure, change may be met with some degree of resistance, but I find that many EMT's and medics accept change quite well. Yes, at least in NYC and NYS, my observations give me the impression that many times change only happens after it is long overdue. The responsibility for that doesn't lie with the street level EMT's and medics, it has to do much more with the politicians (those who write the protocols, the policies, the medical directors, the upper level administrators).

I remember reading an abstract of a published study in JEMS evaluating the efficacy of prehospital intubation for APE patients a few years ago. They compared the eventual outcomes of APE patients intubated in-field with APE patients intubated immediately on arrival at the ED. There was convincing evidence that prehospital intubation for APE patients was harmful.

So, now I am armed with a piece of knowledge. But, even to this day, daring to apply that knowledge means risking my certification and the ability to support myself and my family.

Since then CPAP has been added as an "option" in our protocols. I don't use it, not because of my hesitance to change, but because none of my employers have even considered providing either the equipment or the training. I guess that option must be expensive.

When I was in medic school (96-97), there were drastic changes implemented to the citywide protocols. Calcium was removed from the cardiac arrest protocol. Versed was added as a sedation option for pacing and intubation. Ativan was also added as an option for stat-ep. ASA was added to the MI protocol, and the use of NTG (SL and paste) was emphasized while morphine was de-emphasized. Transcutaneous pacing and 12 lead EKG's were all added to the protocols. The medic trucks I was riding on carried all the new drugs, and they were all equipped with new lifepak 12's capable of the new technology. The training was provided by their employer.

Were the "old-time medics" I worked with hesitant to the change? HELL NO! They WELCOMED it! I observed every one of these new implementations during my "observer tours"... except for the Versed and Ativan. See, it wasn't the medics that were hesitant, telemetry absolutely refused to acknowledge that we even carried the option.

EMT-B's can now carry and administer albuterol, ASA, even epi-pens under certain strict circumstances. Although required on the 911 units, the commercial service I work for doesn't equip BLS units with these options. As far as the albuterol, they went as far as offering the training and preparing the equipment for distribution to all the units. The medical director refused. Do you really believe that the EMTs would be unwelcome to these new changes?

Without the knowledge, all we have is performing personnel. Not really knowing the "full picture" can be detrimental. My question is why not give the full picture?

Yes, without knowledge, all we have is performing personnel. I can't see any harm in giving the full picture. But I question how "not really knowing the full picture can be detrimental". Do you have a basis to support this?

For example I always taught the full hemodynamic lecture to basic when explaining blood pressures. It proved to be less confusing to learn something right the first time, than to go back to school later and re-learn something. Ironically, basic always had a higher score than most advanced students, because they did not already have preconceived ideas.

Hmmm... not sure I get this. "It proved to be less confusing to learn something right the first time" as opposed to "relearning it later". Are you saying that those paramedic students who had previously attended your hemodynamic lecture during EMT-B training had better test scores (for this area of knowledge) than already practicing medics who lacked receiving an equivalent lesson during their EMT-B training?

Since I'm playing devil's advocate, I'll refrain from forming an opinion to the "because they did not already have preconceived ideas." Cause and effect statements are tricky to evaluate.

The difference between good medics and half arse ones is the desire and "want" to learn. Instead of stopping at your basic book, maybe if you had researched and looked past, you would had found the answer. Again, we must stop the traditional mentality of describing that everything is found in the basic course and texts. In actuality it is a very poor, poor representation of emergency medicine. You see my Basic EMT book had the pathophysiology of right failure and left, again we did "dumb down" the EMT curriculum in 1993. This was met by resistance of many educators that knew the potential effects that we are now seeing.

Yes, I agree! I'll reword it though since I don't think it is "THE" difference, but I think that you are on to something here.

One (of several) important qualities necessary to be a good medic is the desire to learn.

Later on, I actually did ask some more experienced EMTs about the difference between left/right sided heart failure, but none of them knew the answer either. Nowadays, I could have easily googled the answer in seconds. For this reason, I feel it is necessary to teach EMTs about evaluating sources of information. Back then, I would have been too intimidated to just stop a doctor in the ED and ask. This was enforced by the medic's rant (I wouldn't dare want to give off the impression I was incompetent for not knowing what a peer felt was "basic knowledge"). Maybe more needs to be done with promoting a good relationship between EMS (especially new EMTs) and the staff of their regional EDs.

Yes, CME needs to be encouraged. But, motivation cannot be forced.

We expect our basics to have the knowledge and skills, but we are not teaching, nor providing avenues to meet those expectations. Yet, again how many instructors are informing students that they must go outside their comfort zone and read other educational materials and demand such? Yes, the basic text is needed as one of the required books, but NOT the sole text.

Hopefully, with the proposed new curriculum we will see the EMT length increase by 20-30%, requiring more in-depth education.

R/r 911

Every CME I have attended has welcomed EMTs, but there has never been a requirement for EMT-Bs in NY. Even most medics will attend the bare minimum, or even look for ways around attending CMEs. Again, motivation cannot be forced, and this lack of motivation is sad indeed. It's a spiraling effect too. Why should an employer spend their resources organizing CMEs when their personnel lack the interest of attending.

So more avenues to increase knowledge and skills need to be provided, yes. But maybe incentive needs to be provided since natural desire lacks. Some larger organizations may offer compensation (paid time or even $) for attending CME, but good luck encouraging this expensive option to administrators. Actually union shop stewards for non-profit agencies should find out about government education and training grants. They can secure the resources to provide all sorts of training programs, including wage compensation, at no cost to the agency.

Encourage competition! As humans, we love to compete! Instead of compensating every employee for every CME hour they attend, you could probably get better response for offering some sort of periodic competition with prizes going to the top few. It can end up promoting a better social working environment as well.

Say, you offer a CME for pediatric trauma. All those in attendance are allowed to take a written test. The top 1 or 2 scores can be awarded a gift certificate to a restaurant, an extra personal day, tickets to a local sporting event. All sorts of options that are certainly cheaper than paying out hourly wages... and I suspect the turnout would be better. Inter-agency and regional competitions should be promoted as well.
 
Yes, without knowledge, all we have is performing personnel. I can't see any harm in giving the full picture. But I question how "not really knowing the full picture can be detrimental". Do you have a basis to support this?

Doesn't American Heart promote public access defibrillation and teach this in CPR courses offered to lay persons? How long have CPR classes been available to the general public? Don't the studies show such efforts as being effective? And while I am sure a lot of material is covered during these classes besides the actual skill, there has to be plenty of "basics" which are not taught to these people. And how much of the information thought do you actually believe is retained... and for how long?
 
Have we dumbed down our curriculum, yes, just read an old emt-a textbook. Also, another form of dumbing down is being stuck in a rut and not moving your profession forward. Do you need work experience as an emt-basic before you become a paramedic, no, this is an outdated view that almost all ems experts agree on now. Should we intimidate other providers, well no, but we shouldn't coddle them like we are doing now.

Now, a word about internet forums. From a scientific point of view, all of our points are unsubstantiated cause and effect arguments. We are sharing opinions and forming ideas. Advanced brainstorming if you will. We’re not scientists and should not be held to their standard. I could argue that all of your points are unsubstantiated cause and effect arguments (like that little thing on learning to drive), but I won’t.
 
Have we dumbed down our curriculum, yes, just read an old emt-a textbook. Also, another form of dumbing down is being stuck in a rut and not moving your profession forward. Do you need work experience as an emt-basic before you become a paramedic, no, this is an outdated view that almost all ems experts agree on now. Should we intimidate other providers, well no, but we shouldn't coddle them like we are doing now.

Now, a word about internet forums. From a scientific point of view, all of our points are unsubstantiated cause and effect arguments. We are sharing opinions and forming ideas. Advanced brainstorming if you will. We’re not scientists and should not be held to their standard. I could argue that all of your points are unsubstantiated cause and effect arguments (like that little thing on learning to drive), but I won’t.


Good points indeed. I shouldn't expect any higher standards than if I was having a similar conversation with coworkers. After all, I am not a teacher grading an essay!

I really like the points rid is making, and for the most part, I probably agree with most of them. I AM playing Devil's Advocate a lot on this one, maybe I am evaluating my own opinions as well. I would love to see EMS move forward!

Back onto topic. I like your point guardian. A rigorous "initiation" process probably doesn't improve the quality of care provided by 'rookies'. But certain standards should be expected.

As far as the "dumbing down".. I agree that the curriculum has been dumbed down. I am only questioning whether or not this has a negative effect on patient care. Should an EMT-B be able to decribe the path of blood flow through each heart chamber from vena cava to aorta, including pulmonary circulation? My emotions tell me yes, but I doubt many could do this from the top of their head. Do I think it will have a negative effect on their treatment? No. Do I think it should be omitted from the curriculum... absolutely not. How else can you explain VF/VT, or chronic conditions they may encounter such as A Fib?

But exactly how much more detail is necessary? Are the valves important? Pacemaker locations?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Should an EMT-B be able to decribe the path of blood flow through each heart chamber from vena cava to aorta, including pulmonary circulation? My emotions tell me yes, but I doubt many could do this from the top of their head.


More accurately... I AM sure many EMT-B's CAN do this, but I suspect there are also many who cannot.
 
Ok, I think you and I are going to agree on a lot of issues. Now to the specific question...this is a great question and the reason I know it's great is because I can't sum up an easy answer into one sentence. I think every paramedic should have a minimum of 2 college semesters of A&P. That way they can read and understand why they are doing what they are doing. Why is this important you ask? The vast majority of clinical mistakes are due to a lack of understanding about basic disease processes and/or A&P. Can you think of many clinical mistakes that were caused by something else? And after all, what are we put here to do?...we are here to work as skilled clinicians, not taxi drivers. Where do we draw the line? Well, we are all going to have our own opinions about where we would draw the line. With that said, some of us on this site (myself included) think we should push ourselves a little harder. With more education comes better clinical skills, more money, less riff-raff, and thus a better all around profession.


I'll add, this is an issue for everyone. Even medical schools have a hard time deciding where to draw the line. With the constant advancements in medicine and ever increasing subspecialties, they're having a harder and harder time deciding what to cram into the 4 years of medical school. I think we are a long way off from having this problem. If we wanted to, we could easily increase our basic level of understanding within a 2 year paramedic program (without cramming) which would make this a bonafide profession just like nursing and vastly improve our clinical care.
 
I should also add that I'm one who believes that emt-basic training is fine where it is. In other words, as bls first responders, their level of understanding is fine. However, when put in the position of primary prehospital care provider (like out in the boondocks without any als providers around) they are doomed to provide mediocre (at best) care because of their lack of education. To make matters worse, we have some that come on here and say "we can't do no better because bls providers is all we have here in boondockville." I think if we increase education, then ems will finally become a respectable profession with higher salaries. Only then will boondockville be able to find paramedics and start providing the level of care its citizens deserve.
 
Ok, I think you and I are going to agree on a lot of issues. Now to the specific question...this is a great question and the reason I know it's great is because I can't sum up an easy answer into one sentence. I think every paramedic should have a minimum of 2 college semesters of A&P. That way they can read and understand why they are doing what they are doing. Why is this important you ask? The vast majority of clinical mistakes are due to a lack of understanding about basic disease processes and/or A&P. Can you think of many clinical mistakes that were caused by something else? And after all, what are we put here to do?...we are here to work as skilled clinicians, not taxi drivers. Where do we draw the line? Well, we are all going to have our own opinions about where we would draw the line. With that said, some of us on this site (myself included) think we should push ourselves a little harder. With more education comes better clinical skills, more money, less riff-raff, and thus a better all around profession.


I'll add, this is an issue for everyone. Even medical schools have a hard time deciding where to draw the line. With the constant advancements in medicine and ever increasing subspecialties, they're having a harder and harder time deciding what to cram into the 4 years of medical school. I think we are a long way off from having this problem. If we wanted to, we could easily increase our basic level of understanding within a 2 year paramedic program (without cramming) which would make this a bonafide profession just like nursing and vastly improve our clinical care.

Paramedics should have a minimum of 2 semesters of A&P. Hmmm... let me work on that a bit.

Myself, rid, and guardian all seem to share the opinion of: An important quality necessary to be a good medic is the desire to learn. Maybe we should be prescreening for this quality.

If an EMT had to first pass certain pre-requisite classes before applying to medic school, maybe a greater percentage of the applicants would possess that desire to learn. I would suggest a medical-dosage calculation class myself if that were the case. A local senior-college offers that class for nursing students, yet it probably would be of great benefit to medic students as well.

At the very least, the burden of teaching this material (A&P/med-dosage calculation), would be removed from the paramedic program, and the students would be expected to already have comprehension of this material. A&P was a big barrier for students in my class, and it WAS taught by a college A&P professor (who was also a certified medic/instructor) using a separate A&P text. I believe this is a similar structure used in my area medic programs today. Why "weed out" those unable to grasp certain concepts when you can just start out with those who have already grasped them?

So, instead of emptying x # of seats, you can BEGIN by offerring those seats to better qualified candidates. I like that.

And yes, I wholeheartedly agree that higher standards for education would be a great argument to lobby for increased salaries. I do see problems with implementing this structure, and I also can think of a potential solution... but let me take a break before I write anoter book.
 
Ok, nobody wants to butt in. I wonder if anybody is still reading. I gotta learn to type less.

Keep in mind, I am not a trainer. I also don't know how Paramedic training works across the country. Most medic courses here are not affiliated with an accredited college/university. Is this pretty much a standard? I will assume it is for this post.

So, should an EMT-B who wants to be a medic be required to apply to college, be accepted, enroll, and pay tuition just to register for and take maybe 2 or 3 pre-requisite classes over a 1 year period? And that is just to be eligible to apply for paramedic school. Are enough "community" or "open enrollment" colleges available nationwide that have affordable tuition and no unnecessarily high standards for admittance? Do they have enough A&P classes available to incoming freshman, or are those classes filled up by juniors before new students and freshmen are even allowed to register?

Plus, unless this became a state or regional requirement, why should Joe Student go thru all that trouble if he can just apply to a competing, less-restrictive medic program?

My suggestion is: tier the medic course.

Let's say you now offer: Medic Course 2008: Jan 1, 2008 to Dec 31, 2008...

Instead, maybe it's better to do it this way:

Medic Course, phase 1: Jan 1, 2008 to March 30, 2008.
This course emphasizes the "basics" necessary for paramedic students to comprehend. Emphasis is placed on A&P (taught by a qualified A&P instructor) and mathematics necessary for calculating medical dosages. This class is required to move on to phase 2.

Medic Course, phase 2: April 1, 2008 to Dec. 31, 2008. Pre-req: phase 1.

I can think of many advantages to arranging the class this way. If you usually start out with 30 medic students, you can maybe run two separate phase 1 classes with 20 seats each, expecting 15 from each class to meet the requirements for continuing to phase 2. That of course would have to be worked out.

Plus... if you charge $6,000 now... maybe charge $2,000 for phase 1 and $4,000 for phase 2. That seems win-win for both student and class to me.

Thoughts?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Interesting read.
 
Back
Top