basic to medic in 3 months

I'm with the "don't wait if you can help it" group. The only reasons I'm waiting are because California requires me to work for a year before I can even apply, and I want to get the general ed for my degree out of the way before I commit to medic school.
 
The problem with the idea that you'll pick up BLS skills as a medic is that often you have EMTs with you as a medic, and they are doing the BLS skills while you are doing your ALS. So you won't get much bagging practice as a medic because you'll be doing the IV. You'll be pulling up drugs while your partner is doing vital signs.

Part of it also depends on how good your basic EMT class was. If you went to a good program, spent a lot of time practicing you may come out good at blood pressures, backboarding etc. But a lot of people who come right out of a program are still struggling with the basics and aren't ready for the next step. To think that they'll somehow get much better at things like blood pressures while trying to learn meds, intubation and all the ALS at the same time seems stacking the deck against you.

Do people need year and years as a basic before medic? Probably not, but from my experience most people need at least 6 months working at the basic level before stepping up.
 
medic417 said:
No. In fact it means you waited 3 months to long to get started. Anything to be learned working as a basic can be better learned working as a properly educated Paramedic.
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I went straight from EMT to Medic. I didn't even have an EMT license when my medic class started in august. I took the NREMT about one month into medic school.
 
I believe a lot depends on the individual and their "life experience", as well as the program they're looking at.

One of the problems in many areas is that X years of EMT-B experience may or may not count for much. If you're seeing a lot of sick patients, then great. If you're doing ER discharges to Nursing homes and the Renal Response Team, not so much.

One problem has been that programs expect a level of experience (as well as math and other skills) that might not be there. Personally, given the number of students looking to go "zero to sixty" or "Insta-medic", it would be great to see programs address that by making a program specific to that type of student.

SHort answer: More than likely, 3 months shouldn't be a problem.
 
If we are truly headed towards using higher education to bring the profession in-line with other medical fields, then requiring a set time of on-the-job experience before allowing someone to move onto the next level will not work.

Is time in the field beneficial? Most of the time... yes. Even though there are plenty of arguments both for and against.

One thing for certain is that it isn't realistic to tell a student, "you went through the EMT-B portion of your schooling, now you have to find a job in the field and work for a year before you can move onto the next level."

Are there any other professional degrees that require a student to go out and find their own real world experience as a prerequisite? None that I can think of.

I do believe that having a sound skill set is of importance and a happy medium can be found.

If we are looking at an AAS track for a Paramedic, is it out of the question to have a 5 credit hour class taken the semester between EMT-B and the beginning of the Paramedic portion? A class focusing on in-field experience and honing the skills of students before they begin Paramedic.

Another alternative is simply expanding the EMT-B class to include alot more clinical experience time. Better for new EMT's to build their skills in a controlled environment than to have them doing it on the job.
 
medic417 said:
Well based on California having the second to only New Jersey as worst EMS system maybe it just proves it is a bad ideal.
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I know this is off topic, but other than rumors and anecdotal evidence, what are you basing your claim that NJ is the worst EMS system? inquiring minds want to know.
 
Lifeguards For Life said:
I went straight from EMT to Medic. I didn't even have an EMT license when my medic class started in august. I took the NREMT about one month into medic school.
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I'm curious about taking the NREMT test one month into medic school. I was under the impression that you needed to complete the course before you could even register for the test. I'm pretty sure it's right on the NREMT website. Could you please fill me in on how this worked, and worked out for you?
 
atticrat said:
I'm curious about taking the NREMT test one month into medic school. I was under the impression that you needed to complete the course before you could even register for the test. I'm pretty sure it's right on the NREMT website. Could you please fill me in on how this worked, and worked out for you?
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He meant he did not take his EMT Basic test until a month into his medic course.
 
a motto we have at my place is "you have to be a good EMT to be a good Paramedic" without field experience, being a medic will be extremely difficult. Also, consider the fact that the EMT's you work with will probably give you trouble since they have more experience than you yet your the one in charge of the scene.
 
lampnyter said:
a motto we have at my place is "you have to be a good EMT to be a good Paramedic" without field experience, being a medic will be extremely difficult.
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The first years of being a Paramedic are difficult anyhow, regardless of experience.

Also, consider the fact that the EMT's you work with will probably give you trouble since they have more experience than you yet your the one in charge of the scene.
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Let them. Still my call, and ANYONE who thinks that the higher credentialed provider shouldn't be in charge of a patient, regardless of experience, is foolish.


I kicked an Intermediate out of the truck a few weeks back for trying to supersede me on a call with a patient, and he has over a year of 911 experience (and I've been an IFT medic for 3 months). He's still in the wrong. And supervisors will back me up on that any day of the week.


I treat my EMT partner like an equal, I'm just an EMT that can start IVs, but he also knows that when it comes to patient care, we do it my way. I bounce ideas off of him, since he's in medic school, but the final decision rests with me, since the consequences also rest on my cert.
 
yea i agree with you 100%. i respect all of my medics no matter what. i was just saying i know a lot of people who dont
 
Practical Mentoring

The way things worked, when I was trained as an EMT by my paramedic partner, I was "drilled" on all the basics by him (and our other, more experienced EMT partner) and then I was immersed in learning everything I could to act as HIS assistant for advanced calls. Which meant I got to practice communication, learned all the drugs in the box, how to set them up; essentially handling everything the paramedic does up to, but not including the point of administering invasive therapy.

Perhaps that is an important qualification: an EMT is an entry point into a mentored system where, on the job, he/she is learning all of the things that are done to assist the paramedic, which should include learning most everything the paramedic knows on the preparation side.

If it's all about throwing EMT into the bus and then limiting their actions to only those things that EMTs do, then I'd have to agree, stay in school. When I press for experience it's not in a vacuum, it's all about hands-on learning of the trade, passed down from the more experienced to the newcomer.

In those terms, then you add another role to the paramedic, that of teacher (which, let's face it, is the reality whenever a paramedic gets a rookie or even new to him/her EMT partner).

Looking at it that way, an inexperienced medic with a credential is too busy trying to figure out the basics to teach them to someone else.

A joy of working ambulance is being a part of a well-coordinated team, absent of competition and conflict about who knows more. The art is all about synchronization of talent and experience.
 
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firetender said:
The way things worked, when I was trained as an EMT by my paramedic partner, I was "drilled" on all the basics by him (and our other, more experienced EMT partner) and then I was immersed in learning everything I could to act as HIS assistant for advanced calls. Which meant I got to practice communication, learned all the drugs in the box, how to set them up; essentially handling everything the paramedic does up to, but not including the point of administering invasive therapy.

Perhaps that is an important qualification: an EMT is an entry point into a mentored system where, on the job, he/she is learning all of the things that are done to assist the paramedic, which should include learning most everything the paramedic knows on the preparation side.
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Ta da.


It's cool when you get a partner who makes your job easier. My partner does all the things in his scope to help me on a call without me even asking for it. He'll have the EKG hooked up, a bag spiked, BGL determination, a strip printed, BP auscultated, and anything else the call might require while I'm still getting some basic info from the patient. (Meaning that he's fast, not that I'm slow)
 
All of that's great...in systems where it is, in fact B/P or I/P and there are such opportunities. The original poster's question was from NYC where the buses run B/B or P/P. It's a different animal.
 
It seems to me that one of the best benefits of systems with a basic/paramedic setup is the ability for the EMT to learn from the medic. In a pure basic system or one with medic chasecars, the EMTs get little exposure to treatment outside of their scope (and don't have this benefit when moving to a higher certification). In a system that can support running B/P ambulances it can be ideal because you have a clear chain of command and an EMT whose goal is to make the medic's job easier. On calls that need more than one medic, you just send more than one. In my county, code calls get 2 ALS trucks, an Advanced Practice Paramedic, and the District Chief (and occasionally the medical director). You also don't have to pay 2 medics to sit on each truck. Very few downsides to this setup.
 
I work with some great paramedics, others not so much, they shouldnt be in charge of a coffee order never mind patient care. That can also be said about some EMTs.

It is what it is. EMS is no different then any other profession, there are good and not so good.
 
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