Bad call

[firefighter_jer]

Hey everyone, Im a firefighter/emt in a small town. Needless to say, our call volume is very small... around 450 per year. That being said, I had the worst call I have ever had two days ago, it was my first serious pediatric trauma. 7yo girl had a 200 pound tv fall off a cart and landed on her head. Massive trauma to the face and head. We performed cpr and I rode in with the ambulance all the way to the er doing compressions. We did everything by the book, the medic did everything in his scope and she didn't make it. I've been having a hard time ever since, trouble sleeping, waking in a panic, and being on edge with everyone. I think im a pretty tough guy, but I can't get passed this one. Has anyone been through something like this? A freak accident with a child? How did you get through it?

 

[usafmedic45]

We performed cpr and I rode in with the ambulance all the way to the er doing compressions. We did everything by the book, the medic did everything in his scope and she didn't make it

That would be because she was dead (at least brain dead) before you got there. Honestly, I would have pronounced her on the scene but that's just me.

Has anyone been through something like this? A freak accident with a child? How did you get through it?

Take some time off, talk to someone you trust about it. If you are having that much trouble with it, talk to a psychiatrist or psychologist. If you need to vent or have technical questions you don't feel comfortable asking in the open forum, feel free to send me a PM.

 

[abckidsmom]

To be upset following something like that is completely normal. For it to start waking you up with anxiety and disrupting your relationships is a little over the line, and a sign that you need help with dealing with this.

Does your department have connections with a counselor or someone trained in helping people deal with the stress of the job? I would say that you need to get in to see someone as soon as possible.

In the meantime, talk to the members of the crew, or other understanding people. What you're going through is the hardest part of the job, and there's nothing you could have done differently, sounds like, if the TV killed her right away.

This kind of stuff just wakes us up to the precariousness of life, and can cause all sorts of anxiety if you don't address it head on. There's nothing about "tough guy" or anything else that makes it any different.

I'm a praying person, so I'll pray for you. I find a lot of comfort in my faith, that we're all put here to do the best job we can at what we're called to do, and serving others is one of the more noble callings. I hope you get the help you need.

 

[Epi-do]

A guy I worked with had almost the identical call, except his pt pulled through. She does have lots of deficits now, though. He followed that up with a pedi arrest. He took it pretty hard as well. He ended up taking some time off of work, and also went and talked to a mental health professional to help him move past it.

Sometimes a little bit of time helps to distance you from it.l Sometimes talking with others around the firehouse will help, especially if they were there with you. If that doesn't help, go see a mental health professional. There is no shame in admitting you need help to move past a really bad run if it continues to affect you adversely.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

I would definitely see if your department has CISD available. They should. Tell them you need to be debriefed, the CISD person should be able to help you with things to do/not do in order to properly handle the situation.

 

[fast65]

I would definitely see if your department has CISD available. They should. Tell them you need to be debriefed, the CISD person should be able to help you with things to do/not do in order to properly handle the situation.

+1

Try talking to someone in your department about a CISD, they should already have one planned I would think. If the CISD doesn't help or there isn't one, then please make sure you get professional help. Like others have said, feel free to pm me if you need someone to talk to.

 

[NomadicMedic]

Please do not subscribe to the CISD hype. They have been shown to harm more than help. Having said that, it is important for you to talk to someone. A councilor is a great place to start. You department should have resources ready in cases like this.


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[Mike K]

I'm pretty sure your department or county will offer you counseling and CISD. Don't wait for them to come to you. Demand it. Whatever you do, don't drink over it. I've done that over bad calls, and it don't work.

 

[firetender]

Talk and time

I didn't quite catch your level of experience and time at the work, not that that matters much, but it does play a part assessing the impact on you. The more exposure you get the more quickly you learn that you're there to do what you can, tragedy befalls everyone, yes, kids are pretty much the toughest to deal with emotionally.

And that's what you had, an emotional assault. The haunting visions in your head, unfortunately, are real because you lived them. You experienced the sensation of a life passing while in your charge and, all the more painful, it was at its very beginning.

There are seasoned people out there, and HERE, that can begin to help you start sorting through the experience. Sometimes you need to to make sure you're absolutely clear you did everything that you could.

It may be a challenge but I'm suggesting you take a little time -- without risking too much -- to find one of your peers, or peers elswhere in EMS, live people, where you could feel safe in going through what is now the beginning of a process.

It doesn't have to debilitate you or keep you from working, but this is gonna take a while, and it's going to take your attention. A short session is not likely to do it.

So that means you need to start reaching out to those whom you can trust to talk, talk, talk this out until the whole thing is sorted out. It wasn't just about losing a kid. It was about the visuals, what was done and not done and by whom, and perhaps your most challenging aspect, your relationship with yourself and children and life.

The actual call was the pebble in the lake. Many ripples are buffetting you. Don't expect a quick fix but truly count on this to ultimately help you become not only a better provider but better able to lend support to those following you.

That alone is worth sticking this out.

We're here, I'm here, use us and Blessings on your journey.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

Please do not subscribe to the CISD hype. They have been shown to harm more than help. Having said that, it is important for you to talk to someone. A councilor is a great place to start. You department should have resources ready in cases like this.


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Huh???? Only if you have a crap CISDer maybe.

We have the greatest person ever at my service. She will sit down with you and go over everything. Saved me once or twice.

 

[NomadicMedic]

The facilitator may be excellent, but the actual process of a critical incident stress debriefing can be, in some cases, more traumatic than the actual incident. I wrote a paper on the CISD process for my "well being of the paramedic" class, and was really turned off to the whole thing. I've been involved in a couple, and thought it was poorly executed and the follow up was non existent. My coworkers and I were left with a bad taste in our mouths, wondering if the ham fisted attempt at grief management that we were just made to witness was the best they could offer.

I suggest researching the pros and cons of CISD. Some people find them helpful, but there is "no one size fits all" method to manages stress and grief, which is what the process is forced into.


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[ah2388]

There is no one better to speak to about your experience than those who experienced it with you. No one should judge you regarding a case like this, or any case for that matter. If you are uncomfortable talking with the people you work with, a counselor can work as well. I have been a part of 1 CISD debriefing in my time in EMS, it was a therapeutic experience for the most part, and it worked well for me. With that being said, CISD is not for everyone, especially in an area where the need for that service is few and far between. I would probably recommend seeking counseling for your experience, and additionally, talking to the people in your life whom you hold dear. Partner, Mom, Dad etc..

If you'd like to discuss this event with someone, albeit online, pm me.

 

[WelshMedic]

However you choose to deal with this, please take action now. You are displaying all the signs of a pre-PTSD syndrome, otherwise known as "Battle Stress".

I am telling you this as a colleague, but also as an (ex-) sufferer myself.

It's not too late, but please, please take action now!

Carl.

 

[usafmedic45]

Please do not subscribe to the CISD hype. They have been shown to harm more than help. Having said that, it is important for you to talk to someone

It's mostly the forcing people to take part against their will that seems to be so harmful. If the person seeks out professional care, it's not CISD in the sense we normally think of it. However, I do agree with your sentiment about it.

However you choose to deal with this, please take action now. You are displaying all the signs of a pre-PTSD syndrome, otherwise known as "Battle Stress".

Let's not pathologize this just yet....those are also just the normal signs of stress and grief as well. Even as someone with a PTSD diagnosis, I think it's overdiagnosed in most cases.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

It's mostly the forcing people to take part against their will that seems to be so harmful. If the person seeks out professional care, it's not CISD in the sense we normally think of it. However, I do agree with your sentiment about it.

True. I guess I've never been forced into one. They don't do that at my service. It kind of a there if you need it thing, but you have to take the initiative. And I dunno, maybe it isn't a true CISD? It seemed very relaxed, very person oriented and VERY non traumatic. I don't know what kind of CISD you poor buggers have been forced to sit for, but it sure isn't the same thing I've done. Maybe we just call it CISD here and it really isn't.



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[usafmedic45]

I don't know what kind of CISD you poor buggers have been forced to sit for, but it sure isn't the same thing I've done. Maybe we just call it CISD here and it really isn't.

One service I worked for mandated attendance and "participation" at CISD meetings as a condition of employment. I know this was a common place practice in a lot of services in the Midwest back in the late 90s and early part of the 2000s.

 

[lightsandsirens5]

One service I worked for mandated attendance and "participation" at CISD meetings as a condition of employment. I know this was a common place practice in a lot of services in the Midwest back in the late 90s and early part of the 2000s.

Ok now *that* is wrong. I'm sorry, but if I don't need it, I'm not going to waste my time having you try to play head shrink.

I'd have a bad taste about them too in that case.


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[usafmedic45]

Well, unfortunately, that was the way a lot of the original proponents of CISD advocated utilizing this: to have the entire "team" in on the process and to utilize the cameraderie as a source of support. However, like most half-baked psychological theories, what looks good in concept falls apart or backfires in actual clinical practice.

 

[boingo]

We have a team made up of department members and off site staff, with a facility well out of the city for inpatient tx of stress, substance abuse and related issues. Strictly voluntary and confidential. Those who have used it seem to think it was a good idea.

 

[boingo]

We have a team made up of department members and off site staff, with a facility well out of the city for inpatient tx of stress, substance abuse and related issues. Strictly voluntary and confidential. Those who have used it seem to think it was a good idea. http://onsiteacademy.org/5.html