As of dec 20 2012 all medic programs go to 2 years

[medichopeful]

The scope of practice for EMT-P does not take 2 years to teach and I don't need to know Nursing level A&P.

:rofl:

 

[SanDiegoEmt7]

Most EMS runs are non paying runs. I am looking at investing in private EMS for retirement and as all owners and investors, I want cheap labor. It is one thing to be FF Medic, more training, more work load. Private medics do about half of what fire service medics do. The scope of practice for EMT-P does not take 2 years to teach and I don't need to know Nursing level A&P.

Nursing and medicine have been around for centuries. Ems is a little over 30 years old.

People like you that want to keep work force education requirements down so that the market is flooded and you can pay your employees horribly and immediately replace anyone as you please are one of the main reasons that stand alone EMS is developing as slowly as it is. Fire services do twice as much? Yes they extricate and put liquid on fire, but the majority of the work now-a-days is EMS. If a fire science degree takes two years, an EMS degree should be equal or greater and MANDATORY (this would be paramedic school).

No one hear doubts your experience in the field. But just because you've been doing it the GOOD OLE WAY for two decades doesn't mean its necessary correct and definitely doesn't mean that change isn't good.

I get the vibe that your pissed you spent so many years at crappy wages in a new developing field and have recently decided you would switch the more lucrative business side, only to have education requirements making that prospect look a little less golden like it has been.

 

[fortsmithman]

EMS has paid and never will pay strong wages.

Have they paid or not paid strong wages. In you post you are saying they do and they don't. Make up your mind please.

 

[usalsfyre]

20 years of experience? Or one year of experience 20 times?

 

[Akulahawk]

My responses in red... and I've snipped stuff out to make it more readable...

I am looking at investing in private EMS for retirement and as all owners and investors, I want cheap labor. Then you want minimally trained monkeys. Education = Money. It is one thing to be FF Medic, more training, more work load. Private medics do about half of what fire service medics do. Depends upon your point of reference. Private Medics can do ALL the things that a Firefighter can do... they just have to take the appropriate courses and have the appropriate equipment. I doubt they'd want to put water on fire... The scope of practice for EMT-P does not take 2 years to teach and I don't need to know Nursing level A&P. Teaching the skills doesn't take very long. Teaching the "why" behind their use does. Before I got into EMS, I was in the field of Sports Medicine. My education took just 5 years start to finish...

My preceptor told me up front, "if you start to struggle with what is being asked of you your gone" out of 28 guys 6 got past the preceptors, and three of them should have failed but there had private EMS preceptors. Its not the book work, its the on the job 2:30 in the morning MVA with entrapment that needs to be the focus of the training. I did the same stuff... Teach me extrication and give me tools to do it with and I'll cut someone out of a car with the best of them.
Not some college lecture theory A&P or the like. It is not the clinical area that is lacking. Nurses wonder why they can't get jobs. Its because the schools don't teach to the job market. When asked to start and IV they can't, WHY BECAUSE THE SPENT MONTHS STUDYING CRAP THEY DON'T USE ON THE JOB, SO THE EMPLOYER CAN'T USE THEM. EMS training needs to go back into the hands of the local EMS boards, and the OJT needs to be the focus.

If you know A&P well you'll know why things are done the way they're done and you'll know how to adapt to changes in things as well as be able to propose some treatment stuff to your OLMC because a patient doesn't fit into your protocols and you know what the problem is...

 

[Akulahawk]

20 years of experience? Or one year of experience 20 times?

Could be... Could very well be...

 

[MrBrown]

The scope of practice for EMT-P does not take 2 years to teach and I don't need to know Nursing level A&P.

You sir are a fool.

What do you say to nations like Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the UK who require three to seven years of combined University education and experience to become an ALS Paramedic?

 

[terrible one]

OP I think you are on the wrong forum, try firehouse.com

 

[RocketMedic]

I've got a little over three and a half years of education (non-college for the most part, but still EMS education) invested, and I feel ready for routine stuff, but I am nowhere near being confident in my field. More education cannot hurt.

That being said, I do think we need to examine the 'hows' of expanding education. Keeping a new EMT off of the truck until they've earned a four-year degree isn't going to make a new provider as good as a two-year education and two years of on-the-job training.

I suppose my fear is that if we make a 4-year degree mandatory (example), the financial cost to enter EMS will make it prohibitively expensive for many people. EMS is not a field that you can stop learning in, but it is a field that currently does not compensate us for collegiate-level learning for the most part, and I genuinely do not know if the US health-care system can afford to pay us wages commisurate with our educations.

I think I understand what Bajamedic is trying to articulate, and although I do not agree, he does raise some quasi-valid concerns. Taking EMS back to the dark days of the 1910s is not a good idea, but can we afford to demand that our employers compensate us for knowledge of things never really 'needed' in EMS before? Obviously, we must get better at our jobs- but how do we go about that as an industry?

 

[Hunter]

So when the influx of 6 month trained paramedics slows down because "My god, two years of paramedic school is a lot of work just so can get that fire job." your amigos working BLS will have more jobs available to them.

:beerchug:

WHAT DEPARTMENTS CAN AFFORD TO SEND A GUY TO SCHOOL FOR 2 YEARS.

There's a key just to the left of your A key, go ahead and hit that.

Why should an agency pay for schooling? In how many other fields does one get a free ride for their education?

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I'm currently paying for my own Paramedic school. I understand that when angencys change from being fire departments, and ambulance services to Fire+EMS some departments did train their EMT-B/Fire Fighters so that they could keep their job. However I really doubt that this is the case anymore, at least in most departments. How many professions out there do you know that pay for their employees school prior to hiring them? I mean seriously...



my responses in brown

we are headed in the wrong direction.

More Education is not the wrong direction, you probably think that because you just don't wanna move your #$% to keep up.

NREMT is in OHIO and they are not on the streets of southern California and should have no influence on what happens here.

I'm pretty sure the NREMT is called a National Registery because they don't just base what they do on data from their state. The white house is in Washington but for some odd reason they still make decisions for the whole country.


Once again our trade is making it something it is not, there is a million ways to put water on a fire, and I can hire better firefighters out of Tijuana for less,

Thought we were talking about Medic education not Fireschool?


you don't need a 2 year degree to be a medic. Law enforcement is 100 times harder than EMS and they train officers is 6 months. Bullets and crazy people are allot harder to deal with than sick or torn in half.

You're compairing the difficulty of two proffesions that are completely different, yes they're both public services however one aims to keep things from going bad, and the other is there for when things go to hell.

Wow, so much of this needs to be pulled apart and debated but I need to head to an appointment. Who wants to do this for me?

Erm I'm sure I missed a few points but there you go.

At the same time the US consistently provides worse health outcomes for greater cost than any other developed country who have socialized health care.

This is true and makes me :sad:

Brown agrees with that Smash fellow

Brown is dissapointed for Smash that the Melbourne or the Alfred do not allow him to nick at CT machine and tow it behind that Vanbusprinter he drives

One of our local Fire departments Carries portable handheld X-Rays o.o

here's a picture of one:
http://cfnewsads.thomasnet.com/images/large/543/543462.jpg


my responses in brown

I am looking at investing in private EMS for retirement and as all owners and investors, I want cheap labor.

You're one of those guys who wants to lower wages for EMS and thinks that even though on occasion we're incharged of someones life our jobs should be paid no more than the teenager serving fast food at a local McDonalds. Tell you what, since you're getting into the investing into EMS thing head down to the local home depot, pick up a few of the guys standing outside and pay them $1/hr to do our jobs. since from that statement it seems like you care MORE about the money than anything else.


The scope of practice for EMT-P does not take 2 years to teach and I don't need to know Nursing level A&P.

Considering that out in the field a lot of times you have to make decissions on the spot and dont have time to consult a Doctor like a nurse is able to, I would think that Medics would need a better knowledge of A&P then nurses.


OJT needs to be the focus.

Probably your only statement I can partially agree with. I say partially because as important as OJT is if you don't learn the theory first, when you go out to OJT you're not gonna know what to do, I would think that if they increase the amount of class time the requirement for Ride Alongs and Clinicals would also increase.

 

[Shishkabob]

What do you say to nations like Canada, New Zealand, Australia and the UK who require three to seven years of combined University education and experience to become an ALS Paramedic?

That there is no statistical proof of better patient outcomes in those countries :rofl:

Nursing and medicine have been around for centuries. Ems is a little over 30 years old.

EMS isn't medicine?


Hmph.

 

[SanDiegoEmt7]

EMS isn't medicine?


Hmph.

I meant to say physicians not medicine as a whole. We can definitely include ourselves in the field, but I know you agree we have a long way to go organization and education wise.

 

[mrklove]

THANKS TO THE FOOLS AT THE NATIONAL REGISTRY. I HOPE AS MANY STATES AS POSSIBLE OPT OUT OF THE NATIONAL REGISTRY. WE HAVE MEDICS WORKING ON BLS RIGS BECAUSE THEIR ARE NO JOBS. I CAN SEE THE FIRE SERVICE FIGHTING THIS AS IT MAKE NO SENSE. :angry: WHAT DEPARTMENTS CAN AFFORD TO SEND A GUY TO SCHOOL FOR 2 YEARS.

They hate us for our freedoms...

 

[mrklove]

I'll be part of the new generation of late twenty something's working EMT jobs for the foreseeable future in the U.S.. I've read this entire thread and honestly what I will be looking for and participating in is twofold:

1) drives for major unionisation (new unions or kicking out the old conservative farts who run the current ones) and

2) collectively forcing (via unions and street heat) the state and the federal govt to sign off on single-payer healthcare and/or some variant of socialized healthcare.

This will help EMT's get livable wages and will rid the healthcare infrastructure of bureaucrats who administer nothing but for-profit schemes for shareholders. In my lifetime I'm going to see to it that this happens.

 

[usafmedic45]

Kids can come over here from India and train for 600 hours and go home and fly 737 for a living. American kids need 3 times that.

Look at the safety record of American airlines versus Indian airlines and you'll see why using that argument makes you look like a total moron. You know....even more so than the rest of your argument.

 

[usalsfyre]

I'll be part of the new generation of late twenty something's working EMT jobs for the foreseeable future in the U.S.. I've read this entire thread and honestly what I will be looking for and participating in is twofold:

1) drives for major unionisation (new unions or kicking out the old conservative farts who run the current ones) and

And this will help patients, and for that matter providers how? Ask the UAW how well unionization has worked out for them here lately. I for see unions being AGAINST professionalization of EMS, seeing as how this would likely reduce their member pool and the majority of EMTs and Paramedics will have to be dragged kicking and screaming to higher educational standards. Unions tend to want "something for nothing".

2) collectively forcing (via unions and street heat) the state and the federal govt to sign off on single-payer healthcare and/or some variant of socialized healthcare.

WTF is "street heat"? Surely your not advocating riots...

This will help EMT's get livable wages and will rid the healthcare infrastructure of bureaucrats who administer nothing but for-profit schemes for shareholders. In my lifetime I'm going to see to it that this happens.

I'm not totally anti-socialized care...but if you think this will magically fix the healthcare problems in the US your delusional. The full scope of the problem is not "evil for-profit schemes". Similarly it's not "the big bad government and trial lawyers". All of the above are factors, along with the fact that we've been far more focused on "sick care" than "health care" and if you've ever worked in a disadvantaged area you realize there's a good portion of people out there who are literally not smart/educated enough to participate in their own care. Add in the amount of absolutely futile care we provide and the whole things a mess.

Socialized healthcare would likely reimburse worse than what we have now, simply because EMS adds little value to the system.

 

[usafmedic45]

it's a lot like feeding squirrels and other small fluffy wild animals. You know you aren't supposed to, but they're so cute that you just can't help yourself.

+1. Lol

 

[Cup of Joe]

I thought the world was supposed to end on the 21st, so it would make sense for that date to be picked...:rofl: