Anyone taken an accelerated EMT-P course?

[JPINFV]

Okay, I've had enough accelerated-program bashing!

Open question to everyone who has ever used the term "bash." When did bashing become synonymous with criticize?

I should start this by saying that I was a accelerated EMT-B student at Pelham Training, and I thought the program was great! I knew going into it that it would be an accelerated course, and made sure I was physically and mentally ready. It is not the first accelerated course I've taken (that was an intensive two-week parachute rigging school to become an FAA Senior Rigger), and it was not the first time I've taken the EMT-B course (that was in college in 2001, and I let my cert lapse).

So you thought it was great, yet you've already gone through class once and, presumably, already have field experience? How exactly do you think you compare to the average student who goes for an accelerated course nationwide?

I can say with absolute certainty that everything that was covered in my "normal" program was also covered in the accelerated one, but it all made more sense because it built on stuff you'd learned and practiced the day before, not the week before, or just before winter break, or... At the end of the class, we passed the same practicals I took in 2001, and a written test that was just as hard. The class was smaller (only 9 in mine), and for skills practice we always had two instructors available, meaning I got a whole lot more hands on time than I did the first time around.

Well, gee wiz, I'm happy that everything was covered. After all, every EMT-B program still has the hit the same set minimum amount of topics in order to graduate students. It'll make no sense, for example, if one program omited the OB/Gyn section. How can you be sure that it was because of the temporal relationship and not because you've already been through an EMT-B course once.

The downside is that if you have a bad day, it can really get in the way. You have to be mature enough to be in class all day and then go home and study, and you may miss a bit for clinicals. All in all, it's a good trade-off.

So it's a good thing to trade clinicals off for an earlier end date? Why is this a good trade off? So I can be assured that every basic that passed the course would be ready from day one to handle any emergency as an EMT-B?

Furthermore, how can you be assured that every day will be a good day? We've all had bad days, and last time I checked, it wasn't like I got an email warning before my last bad day.

Interestingly, my husband is an experienced pilot and took all of his advanced ratings in an accelerated format. We are both in agreement that for us, the accelerated program is the only way to go; we just learn better that way.

Would you go to a physician who only took 2 and a half years to pass medical school?

Oh, and for what it's worth, I passed my NR exam on the first try.

I passed both my NREMT exams (original and recert by exam tests) on the first test date while holding down full time undergrad and grad schedules. I didn't even study for the second one. Of course an untrained monkey has a good chance of passing the NREMT-B exam.

 

[Ridryder911]

Okay, I've had enough accelerated-program bashing! I should start this by saying that I was a accelerated EMT-B student at Pelham Training, and I thought the program was great! I knew going into it that it would be an accelerated course, and made sure I was physically and mentally ready. It is not the first accelerated course I've taken (that was an intensive two-week parachute rigging school to become an FAA Senior Rigger), and it was not the first time I've taken the EMT-B course (that was in college in 2001, and I let my cert lapse).

I can say with absolute certainty that everything that was covered in my "normal" program was also covered in the accelerated one, but it all made more sense because it built on stuff you'd learned and practiced the day before, not the week before, or just before winter break, or... At the end of the class, we passed the same practicals I took in 2001, and a written test that was just as hard. The class was smaller (only 9 in mine), and for skills practice we always had two instructors available, meaning I got a whole lot more hands on time than I did the first time around.

The downside is that if you have a bad day, it can really get in the way. You have to be mature enough to be in class all day and then go home and study, and you may miss a bit for clinicals. All in all, it's a good trade-off.

Interestingly, my husband is an experienced pilot and took all of his advanced ratings in an accelerated format. We are both in agreement that for us, the accelerated program is the only way to go; we just learn better that way.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I passed my NR exam on the first try.

So how many times does one have to take the EMT course for it to become easy? So really it was more of a refresher than a true EMT course. It should had been easy, hell you should had been able to whiz right through it.

So you went through an advanced first aid class in a reduced time. You studied out of one textbook & that itself was written at a 6'th grade level. Well, so far you have not impressed me.

There are some courses that one can rush through.. sociology, history, mathematics, etc. Medical care and flying; both were lives are at stake is some exceptions. I would not trust either one of you.

R/r 911

 

[mxjagracer]

I took all of my classes accelerated (EMT-B, EMT-P, and FF I & II), at forty hours a week. I believe my medic class took a total of six months. If you still live at home with your parents like I did, Its GREAT!!! Just no life for six months. 100 pages + of reading per night. If you retain information pretty easy, I would say go for it. Yea, its definitely a challenge. But if you think you can handle it, I say go for it. It also depends on the ability of your instructors for your academy though too. But, for that matter, a crappy instructor at three hours a week wont do you any good either....

 

[Ridryder911]

I took all of my classes accelerated (EMT-B, EMT-P, and FF I & II), at forty hours a week. I believe my medic class took a total of six months. If you still live at home with your parents like I did, Its GREAT!!! Just no life for six months. 100 pages + of reading per night. If you retain information pretty easy, I would say go for it. Yea, its definitely a challenge. But if you think you can handle it, I say go for it. It also depends on the ability of your instructors for your academy though too. But, for that matter, a crappy instructor at three hours a week wont do you any good either....

So how much did you really comprehend? How much lab time and clinical time did you perform?
There is a reason medical school is over three years after traditional grad. Yes, it could be probably reduced to one.. but which one would you want?

R/r 911

 

[Ms.Medic]

I did a fast track program, and I dont think that my education is any less than someone who did it in 2 years. Same info, you just have to catch on to things VERY quickly, and understand it a lot quicker. A 2 year program is a little information at a time, and you have more time to get things down and understand them. I have checked into a lot of the colleges around here, and they all require around the same amount of clinical hours as the fast tracks, give or take an hour or two. Granted, if you are not self motivated, and you cannot learn things without being told what to read and what to study, then THIS COURSE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!


Bottom Line : The state says how many hours you have to have, and if you do those, then what is there to argue,,,,That ones better than the other ??? We have those in all fields. Same amount of time required, same amount of hours, same test for everyone in the end. If you can get it all down by the time you take your NRemt exam, then you got it. If not, then you dont.
I busted my $@3 in my program, and for the last year, Ive done nothing but study, read, do clinicals, work my normal shifts, and study more, and I must have done something right to get it on the first try. Im extremely proud of myself that I had it in me to get through this. It was a lot of VERY HARD WORK. I think you know in your heart whether or not this is right for you. Dont look to everyone on a forum to make your decision, or look to them for approval. You will be very disappointed more often than not.

 

[Ms.Medic]

There are some courses that one can rush through.. sociology, history, mathematics, etc. Medical care and flying; both were lives are at stake is some exceptions. I would not trust either one of you.

R/r 911

And unfortunately Rid,,, you are not the one who gets to decide who comes to your rescue, or what kind of education they will have. The state does, and I bet that if they didnt feel that the "min. requirements" would sufice, then I dont think they would leave them at that. Get over yourself already.

 

[wehttam]

Bottom Line : The state says how many hours you have to have, and if you do those, then what is there to argue,,,,That ones better than the other ??? We have those in all fields.

Congrats on passing the emt P exams, but its really sad when all you can think about is just gaining the min requirements.I do hope that the new rules/requirements will help this profession.

i do agree with some of the forum members, i certainly wouldnt want someone with three months of paramedic training to do anything for me but then again u made a valid point as well u dont choose who will rescue you. No wonder this profession will NEVER GET ANY BETTER AND WILL ALWAYS BE LOOKED DOWN UPON no worthy standards hope we take a page out of nursing one of these days.

p.s
the three month statement was not directed to you but there are programs out there that is that short

 

[AJ Hidell]

I did a fast track program, and I dont think that my education is any less than someone who did it in 2 years. Same info, you just have to catch on to things VERY quickly, and understand it a lot quicker. A 2 year program is a little information at a time, and you have more time to get things down and understand them.

I went to a "fast track" program, although not as "fast" as yours. And I used to believe just as you do. I didn't think I needed all that book learnin' just to start IVs and drop tubes. My patch was as red as everyone else's. I could not possibly have been more wrong.

The state sets only the absolute bare minimum of contact hours. That is exactly what your program (and the one I attended) meets. They typical associates degree program at least doubles those hours (for that matter, so do most college based EMT programs). That is twice the education. Then you add in the foundation of thirty hours of physical and social sciences upon which all that practice is based, and the education is quadrupled. The result is a practitioner that is four times as qualified as a fast track tech medic. It's simple, indisputable math.

You will never hear a medic -- or any other healthcare professional, like a nurse, RT, PT, or even x-ray tech -- who actually has that education saying that they didn't need all that A&P and Microbiology, and Chemistry, and Psychology to be a good practitioner. The only people you hear saying that are those that don't have it. What does that tell you? The truth is, unless you have received that extra education, you simply are not qualified to determine if you really needed it or not. You don't know what you don't know. And neither did I.

My fast track was exactly thirty years ago this year, and it was the exact same hours as your class this year. Although the curriculum content has increased substantially in the last three decades, with a lot more information now being required, they are still teaching it in one-third the time it takes to train a barber, and half the time it takes to train a nail technician. Do you really think that can be done without sacrificing a great deal of important information? Again, do the math.

Just like me, if you ever actually go back and get the scientific foundational courses that you should have gotten as prerequisites, you'll quickly realize just how much you do not know, and you'll suddenly be even less confident than you are now, realizing that your current practice is just a technical shell of the profession it represents. If you're as smart as I think you are, you'll realize how you are fooling yourself with this current line of thinking, and just like me, you'll wish you had done it before paramedic school, not as an after thought.

Saying you missed nothing by taking a fast track course is like saying a mechanic doesn't need to know anything about internal combustion and hydraulics so long as he is taught to change oil and spark plugs. By choosing a 600 hour course, you missed out on the entire scientific foundation of your practice, and to those with a greater education, it will show in your practice. The difference in critical thinking and diagnostic skills between the two practitioners is just that obvious.

An accelerated course may be the same length in hours as many other tech schools that are dragged out over a year. And it may not be significantly superior to some of the poorer associates degree programs that have an inadequate prerequisite list and bad instructors. There are a lot of cheesy degree programs out there, with a horrible course plan, for sure. But not all patches are created equal, no matter how badly we want to think so. You may be able to put your "skills" up against any other, but that's where the comparison stops. And being a great paramedic is not about being better than the next guy. It is about being the best that YOU can possibly be. And right now, you are not nearly as good as you would have been with four times the education. Your level of professional understanding is much, much less than it would have been with a better educational preparation. More education = more understanding. More understanding = better practitioner. Period.

The sad thing is that most people who attend the accelerated programs are the people who should not be doing so. They aren't well educated or transitioning healthcare professionals. They are people who are simply in a hurry to get a patch as soon as possible so they can get a fire job. More than half the time, they don't even really want to be a paramedic. And even those that do are generally just looking for a shortcut to glory because they either don't understand that more education = better education, or else they simply fear an educational commitment.

All that said, I am not opposed to the accelerated concept. I actually often recommend accelerated paramedic courses to those inquiring. As someone already mentioned, such accelerated courses are recommended for transitioning other healthcare professionals (nurses, RTs, PTs, MTs, corpsmen, etc...) who already hold a solid foundation of prerequisite physical and social sciences (A&P, Microbiology, Psychology, Sociology). Those are the people who can take a purely technical training approach to paramedicine and easily translate it into a competent, professional practice. Someone with a biological degree, step to the head of the class and go straight to an accelerated course. You'll do fine. But for the average high school grad with no foundation, I simply cannot recommend any accelerated course. The results are the type of practitioners that hold us back in the 1970s. Don't make the same mistake that I did (although, in my own embarrassed defense, I didn't choose the school. It's where the FD sent everyone).

Sure, most anyone can cram, squeak through a standardized test written at the 8th grade level, and sew on a patch. The Houston Fire Department proves that every day. But no, don't fool yourself into believing that the medic that is produced by that process is anywhere near the quality that s/he should be or would be with greater educational effort.

 

[Ridryder911]

And unfortunately Rid,,, you are not the one who gets to decide who comes to your rescue, or what kind of education they will have. The state does, and I bet that if they didnt feel that the "min. requirements" would sufice, then I dont think they would leave them at that. Get over yourself already.

So your saying that it is okay that state's only imply what is safe? (Actually it is the NHTSA curriculum, not the state, so your even ignorant on the basics of EMS education; so how smart are you really?)

Minimum requirements means .. safe enough; hopefully not to kill someone.

So your proud of your training? So how does it feel that beautician went to school longer to cut & dye your hair than you did to medically treat someone? Better yet, little Johnny & Mary kindergarten teacher went an additional three times longer, just to be sure they could color within the lines? Yeah.. I'll would trust you, just because you now passed a test! Not.

You can't rush some things. It takes time to absorb and then perform clinical skills. It takes time to see the clinical application of this knowledge & learn to apply this. This should not be done after one has recieved their cert and patch but prior while their a student.

Amazing it was not that long ago; you doubted yourself and capabilities. Now, you passed let's be sure not to become overwhelmed with over self confidence upon this.

Even attempting to make such arguements displays ignorance of the profession you chose.

 

[karaya]

Medical care and flying; both were lives are at stake is some exceptions.
R/r 911

Just like EMS, getting your pilots license is all by the hours. Do you know how many accelerated flying schools there are out there? I know guys who got their single engine land ticket in just two weeks from an accelerated school. My flight instructor, who now flys for American Airlines, went and obtained his ATP ticket in one year from an accelerated school! He was then hired by TWA (before being acquired by American) and went through a six month program to fly turbo props before being bumped up to MD-80s.

My point is that it took the X minimum hours to demonstrate and test proficiency in getting a license (just as in EMS), but many more hours of of flying experience is required to be hired by major airlines.

However, along with experience, education is still paramount. There are a lot of dead 3000, 6000 and 9000 hour plus pilots who with all their experience, overlooked an extremley basic fundamental that was taught in the same basic ground school program I went through.

So the next time you fly on an airline, your pilots just might be graduates of an accelerated flying school!

BTW... I did not go through an accelerated flying school.

 

[AJ Hidell]

My flight instructor, who now flys for American Airlines, went and obtained his ATP ticket in one year from an accelerated school! He was then hired by TWA (before being acquired by American) and went through a six month program to fly turbo props before being bumped up to MD-80s.

My point is that it took the X minimum hours to demonstrate and test proficiency in getting a license (just as in EMS), but many more hours of of flying experience is required to be hired by major airlines.

Two problems here. First, you're comparing education to experience, which are two completely different issues, and should not be confused. Second, regardless of the career path that your instructor took, he would have been a better pilot if he had gone Embry-Riddle instead of a series of accelerated courses. That is the whole point of this thread.

 

[Sasha]

I did a fast track program, and I dont think that my education is any less than someone who did it in 2 years. Same info, you just have to catch on to things VERY quickly, and understand it a lot quicker. A 2 year program is a little information at a time, and you have more time to get things down and understand them. I have checked into a lot of the colleges around here, and they all require around the same amount of clinical hours as the fast tracks, give or take an hour or two. Granted, if you are not self motivated, and you cannot learn things without being told what to read and what to study, then THIS COURSE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!


Bottom Line : The state says how many hours you have to have, and if you do those, then what is there to argue,,,,That ones better than the other ??? We have those in all fields. Same amount of time required, same amount of hours, same test for everyone in the end. If you can get it all down by the time you take your NRemt exam, then you got it. If not, then you dont.
I busted my $@3 in my program, and for the last year, Ive done nothing but study, read, do clinicals, work my normal shifts, and study more, and I must have done something right to get it on the first try. Im extremely proud of myself that I had it in me to get through this. It was a lot of VERY HARD WORK. I think you know in your heart whether or not this is right for you. Dont look to everyone on a forum to make your decision, or look to them for approval. You will be very disappointed more often than not.

I was just like you when I first started to float around on this forum. I thought hey, minimum standards are set in place for a reason, and if I can meet them, when I'm a medic and as good as anyone else. We all pass the same test.

I had my epiphany, and if you're any kind of good medic, you will too. You will realize how much education it takes to really be a paramedic. You gotta know the whys and hows of the human body, the cells, and the drugs before you can hope to be an effective paramedic.

The fact that you felt it necessary to take the cram school even despite asking advice and getting a resounding "No" says, to me, at least that you were not confident in your 10 week training to pass the test. Maybe you had the smarts to pass the test on your own, but we'll never know since you took the cram class.

 

[VentMedic]

I did a fast track program, and I dont think that my education is any less than someone who did it in 2 years. Same info, you just have to catch on to things VERY quickly, and understand it a lot quicker. A 2 year program is a little information at a time, and you have more time to get things down and understand them. I have checked into a lot of the colleges around here, and they all require around the same amount of clinical hours as the fast tracks, give or take an hour or two. Granted, if you are not self motivated, and you cannot learn things without being told what to read and what to study, then THIS COURSE IS ABSOLUTELY NOT FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!


Bottom Line : The state says how many hours you have to have, and if you do those, then what is there to argue,,,,That ones better than the other ??? We have those in all fields. Same amount of time required, same amount of hours, same test for everyone in the end. If you can get it all down by the time you take your NRemt exam, then you got it. If not, then you dont.
I busted my $@3 in my program, and for the last year, Ive done nothing but study, read, do clinicals, work my normal shifts, and study more, and I must have done something right to get it on the first try. Im extremely proud of myself that I had it in me to get through this. It was a lot of VERY HARD WORK. I think you know in your heart whether or not this is right for you. Dont look to everyone on a forum to make your decision, or look to them for approval. You will be very disappointed more often than not.

And unfortunately Rid,,, you are not the one who gets to decide who comes to your rescue, or what kind of education they will have. The state does, and I bet that if they didnt feel that the "min. requirements" would sufice, then I dont think they would leave them at that. Get over yourself already.

When we talk about a two year program on this forum, hopefully it is meant to be a two year degree program. But, yes there are places that take 700 hours of training and stretch it to two years just to give the illusion of a lengthy program.

To down play the importance of education in any healthcare profession just demonstrates a lack of knowledge and education from that person.

Do you realize how must easier the Paramedic core classes would be if you had prerequisites before entering the program so that all you would have to do is learn the application of the procedures? And, you might even understand why those things are done and why they work or not. You would also have developed study habits and reading comprehension skills which also would have made the Paramedic program much easier.

The Paramedic is the only license holder in the medical professions that has failed to see a need to obtain higher education. Yet they are the most vocal when it comes to comparing salary and reimbursement. No mystery there since the legislators have many times pointed out what they want from a healthcare professionals. All the other professions have stepped up and raised their stanards. It was the professionals themselves that petitioned both the state and national levels for increased standards.

 

[Ms.Medic]

You will never hear a medic -- or any other healthcare professional, like a nurse, RT, PT, or even x-ray tech -- who actually has that education saying that they didn't need all that A&P and Microbiology, and Chemistry, and Psychology to be a good practitioner. The only people you hear saying that are those that don't have it. What does that tell you? The truth is, unless you have received that extra education, you simply are not qualified to determine if you really needed it or not. You don't know what you don't know. And neither did I.

I already had three A&P courses before I went through, it was prereq for my emt basic course.
Intro, 1, and 2

Along with many other courses that I think made it a lot easier for me. Some people get their education in other ways, and I think to say that if you dont get these core courses by going through a two year paramedic program, its ridiculous. Just because I didnt take all of these at the same time, or that they were labeled within the paramedic program, doesnt mean I dont have that knowledge.

 

[AJ Hidell]

I already had three A&P courses before I went through, it was prereq for my emt basic course.
Intro, 1, and 2

Dang! That's a serious EMT course there! Hats off to them. That's the kind of thinking that it will take to lead us into the 20th century. It's just sad that the majority of all paramedic programs in the country don't even require that. But again, the fire and volly chiefs fight it every time it is tried.

Some people get their education in other ways, and I think to say that if you dont get these core courses by going through a two year paramedic program, its ridiculous. Just because I didnt take all of these at the same time, or that they were labeled within the paramedic program, doesnt mean I dont have that knowledge.

Agreed. You're absolutely right about that. So long as the preparation and the core education are the same, the setting is not of paramount importance to me. And I will often recommend non-collegiate paramedic courses to prospective students when their quality is known to be superior. I will, however, always recommend that they obtain the same prerequisites (or usually more) before attending that course. Added together, you're right, it adds up to a good education, degree or not. The most important concept is that those courses must be completed before the paramedic core in order to achieve optimum educational synergy. A medic who goes back to take those courses after the fact will not develop into as good a medic as he would have had he done it in the proper order.

Unfortunately, the 10 week course is not known to even be adequate, much less superior. It is great that you got a foundation established before the course. That well enabled you to better understand and assimilate your paramedic instruction, as well as to recognize the deficiencies in the process. So long as you maintain your current commitment, you are going to develop very well into an above average practitioner. I just hope you remember that, in the system you hail from, you are very much the exception to the rule.

 

[Foxbat]

You would also have developed study habits and reading comprehension skills which also would have made the Paramedic program much easier.

Ironically, my college study habits actually played an evil joke on me during my EMT class. I understand and retain the material in my classes (engineering) pretty well from lectures, handouts and such, and I usually turn to books if material is harder than usual. That approach, so far, has worked well for me.
Well, my EMT class was too easy and I did not do enough reading only to discover later (after I passed all exams) that there's stuff I should have known from the book and I didn't.:wacko:

 

[Ridryder911]

So would it be a good idea to see their diploma's alike in the Doc's office? Maybe, we should institute the idea of hanging our sheepskin in the back of the truck to allow to see if patients should trust us or not.

R/r 911

 

[Ridryder911]

I already had three A&P courses before I went through, it was prereq for my emt basic course.
Intro, 1, and 2

Along with many other courses that I think made it a lot easier for me. Some people get their education in other ways, and I think to say that if you dont get these core courses by going through a two year paramedic program, its ridiculous. Just because I didnt take all of these at the same time, or that they were labeled within the paramedic program, doesnt mean I dont have that knowledgeAlong with many other courses that I think made it a lot easier for me. Some people get their education in other ways, and I think to say that if you don’t get these core courses by going through a two year paramedic program, it’s ridiculous. Just because I didn’t take all of these at the same time, or that they were labeled within the paramedic program, doesn’t mean I don’t have that knowledge.

How do you really know? Your certificate ink is not dry yet and you’re already presuming you have equivelant knowledge? How many cardiac cases have you personally been responsible for (no preceptor, no other Paramedic, etc) yet?. How many difficult arrhythmias have you interpreted and have you worked a CHF vs. COPD respiratory or pediatric arrest yet? Your assuming a lot.. You maybe great then again...?

There is a reason schools are generally set up the way they are. Believe it or not, someone smarter than a clock hour certificate figured this out way time ago. Sure many attempt to short cut, but soon find out it makes it bad for the profession and definitely bad on the patient. This is why more and more on-line, bridge, and other alternative programs are being closely scrutinized, increasing the required hours or just slowly being phased out. Many may pass the boards with flying colors; but they do not know what to do in the job.

Instead of making it easier, we should be making length twice as hard. Too many are allowed to be Paramedics. Make the curriculum demanding enough that one has to actually master the objectives and have a full understanding of the material. Let's have more scenario base simulations with intense clinical and set number of patient contacts; not hours. Fortunately, the new curriculum will have patient contacts, not just hours; so at least that is an improvement.

R/r 911

 

[JPINFV]

So would it be a good idea to see their diploma's alike in the Doc's office? Maybe, we should institute the idea of hanging our sheepskin in the back of the truck to allow to see if patients should trust us or not.

R/r 911

I'm game for that.

 

[benkfd]

I know I'm getting in late on the conversation here but, what do you consider accelerated? My Medic class was 18 mo.'s long.... Also a good instructor makes all the difference in the world I think. Mine was truely AWESOME!