Any interesting anecdotes about interference with patient care from a CNA, lifegurad, etc.?

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Tachy55

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Wondering if any members had any appealing stories about lower level healthcare providers such as lifeguards, CNAs, etc. trying to interfere or take over patient care during EMS's assessment/treatment. One of my buddies is a certified lifeguard at a community pool and thinks he knows everything when it comes to emergency medical care despite only having a four hourish long CPR/AED and basic first aid course...
 
No... usually its an bystander with a higher level like MD, RN or Paramedic that needs a moment to realize it isn't their scene and they don't really want the responsibility. But even that is rare.
 
Usually Nurses or Doctors in my experience. There is always the occasional paramedic or former combat lifesaver

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NomadicMedic said:
I just thank them and get them away as soon as possible.

Unless it's CPR, in which case, they do compressions.
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This, OP. Also, for being 18, and (presumably) new you seem pretty focused on the status of this job. Would you care to elaborate?
 
I've gotten great help from:
1) ED physicians
2) Current EMTs and medics
3) Younger cops
4) Younger firefighters
5) ED nurses

I've gotten terrible help from:
1) Internal medicine physicians
2) Older firefighters
3) Older cops
4) Nurses generally
5) CNAs...oh, CNAs...

As always, n = 1, anecdotes =/= evidence.
 
I've had a doc help with bagging once, she backed off once we had enough hands. No lower levels trying to take over. They would be told to piss off if they did anyway.
 
Old school NYC*EMS had a great little p*ss off card at one point...gonna find that and hand it out ;)
 
VentMonkey said:
This, OP. Also, for being 18, and (presumably) new you seem pretty focused on the status of this job. Would you care to elaborate?
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My friend's behavior triggered my curiosity into this topic. Nothing to do with status or glamour of being an EMT (I'm proud but I don't brag about being an "expert" in Emergency Medicine because I'm not, I am just a basic..). My other post pertaining to a career in EMS being looked down upon was triggered by incidents I have witnessed whether in the ER between nurses or MDs directed towards EMS, or talking with individuals about my future career path as a firefighter/paramedic and being encouraged to dream bigger in the field of healthcare... I just wanted some input from other people's beliefs or experiences.
 
Tachy55 said:
My friend's behavior triggered my curiosity into this topic. Nothing to do with status or glamour of being an EMT (I'm proud but I don't brag about being an "expert" in Emergency Medicine because I'm not, I am just a basic..). My other post pertaining to a career in EMS being looked down upon was triggered by incidents I have witnessed whether in the ER between nurses or MDs directed towards EMS, or talking with individuals about my future career path as a firefighter/paramedic and being encouraged to dream bigger in the field of healthcare... I just wanted some input from other people's beliefs or experiences.
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Ah, fair enough. Well then as a bit of friendly advice from someone who's done it slightly longer, it's best not to worry about how others seem to portray you (us); it won't harbor anything positive. My direct advice to you is:
do your job, do it well, don't let it define you, then go home at the end of the day.

There really are some good threads on that topic, but this early in your career you're doing yourself a huge disservice by even concerning yourself with such matters. Worry about being a proficient provider, respect is earned in life, and status and wealth are what you make of it.

As far as the highlighted remark, you're sort of right, and I'm sorta "just a paramedic". I'll let you figure out how I mean...

-VM:)
 
I actually one time had a cna claim she was a nurse. I had a full arrest, my partner was off at the nursing station on the other side of the complex thinking things were peachy. I walk in, no breathing, no pulse, holy snickers so I see the nurse aka cna I start compressions, she freaks out, I ask if she can bag, I finish off my compressions she attempts to bag she has no idea what shes doing, thank god my partner shows up, she breaks down crying admits to being a cna.
Oi vey. Plenty more where that came from.

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gonefishing said:
I finish off my compressions she attempts to bag she has no idea what shes doing, thank god my partner shows up, she breaks down crying admits to being a cna.
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Doesn't she have to take HCP CPR...? If so, no excuse.
 
EpiEMS said:
Doesn't she have to take HCP CPR...? If so, no excuse.
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Think about how often (pre)hospital folks don't bag well. She probably hasn't touched one since CPR class, it's not that surprising.
 
EpiEMS said:
Doesn't she have to take HCP CPR...? If so, no excuse.
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Yes, they do.

Anecdotally speaking you'll run into many "stereotypical" events at SNF's and con-homes in your career.

The story fish told is by no means new, or shocking. With that, when my wife and I first started dating she was in the midst of doing a CNA course (always knew she wanted to go RN). It was about equivalent to most EMT courses, and yes they require CPR cards like pretty much any healthcare provider.

Fast forward a few years later and she's working at a SNF. These "nurse assistants" are often left with 20-30?ish patients at a time on a given shift for 8-12 hours at a time. The LVN's are typically the highest qualified staff (particularly at night); you may have a pencil-pushing DON/ RN during the day. They're often subjected to the same type of injuries EMS providers are (try lifting a s/p CVA patient by yourself? She did.), and get the same crap pay in hopes of either bringing home the bacon to their families, or moving up the nursing ladder.

Many of these CNA's develop a fond, loving, and close bond with the patients they care for daily; they become like their own family members with names and such (every see the demented elderly SNF patient with the ragdoll babies, or the mind of a 3 year old?), and may even be "working" what they believe to be a person near and dear to them when we walk in the room.

Sure, I've rolled mt eyes, snapped, snickered and judged like most of us, but it doesn't make it right. Try keeping up with all the grunt work of 30 bedpans, urinals, and daily turns only to have to EMS-ers give you attitude because you're surprised, or freaked out by the code in the room next door when you may literally have "just talked to them".

All these threads about how to better our profession blah blah blah. Why don't we start by giving out pointers we've missed to our future providers? Maybe then we won't continue the "tradition" of what it is we all find so frustrating: ourselves.

They have jobs to do just like us. These days more often than not I guide them if they're nervous (I do need/ use them for CPR), and walk them through or encourage their technique; isn't that what we learn in the basics of any AHA provider course anyhow? Nah, easier to turn around and poke fun.

...rant over (for now).
 
VentMonkey said:
Yes, they do.

Anecdotally speaking you'll run into many "stereotypical" events at SNF's and con-homes in your career.

The story fish told is by no means new, or shocking. With that, when my wife and I first started dating she was in the midst of doing a CNA course (always knew she wanted to go RN). It was about equivalent to most EMT courses, and yes they require CPR cards like pretty much any healthcare provider.

Fast forward a few years later and she's working at a SNF. These "nurse assistants" are often left with 20-30?ish patients at a time on a given shift for 8-12 hours at a time. The LVN's are typically the highest qualified staff (particularly at night); you may have a pencil-pushing DON/ RN during the day. They're often subjected to the same type of injuries EMS providers are (try lifting a s/p CVA patient by yourself? She did.), and get the same crap pay in hopes of either bringing home the bacon to their families, or moving up the nursing ladder.

Many of these CNA's develop a fond, loving, and close bond with the patients they care for daily; they become like their own family members with names and such (every see the demented elderly SNF patient with the ragdoll babies, or the mind of a 3 year old?), and may even be "working" what they believe to be a person near and dear to them when we walk in the room.

Sure, I've rolled mt eyes, snapped, snickered and judged like most of us, but it doesn't make it right. Try keeping up with all the grunt work of 30 bedpans, urinals, and daily turns only to have to EMS-ers give you attitude because you're surprised, or freaked out by the code in the room next door when you may literally have "just talked to them".

All these threads about how to better our profession blah blah blah. Why don't we start by giving out pointers we've missed to our future providers? Maybe then we won't continue the "tradition" of what it is we all find so frustrating: ourselves.

They have jobs to do just like us. These days more often than not I guide them if they're nervous (I do need/ use them for CPR), and walk them through or encourage their technique; isn't that what we learn in the basics of any AHA provider course anyhow? Nah, easier to turn around and poke fun.

...rant over (for now).
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Yes encourage and walk through. I never snapped but have always tried to be the calm reassuring voice. I remember cracking ribs for the first time. I'll never ever forget it. I try to make it an enjoyable experience. [emoji23]

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