Abandonment

[CollegeBoy]

So lets take a hypothetical situation here that nearly happened to me the other day. I am a member of a non-transport volunteer department, essentially we act as first responders for the ambulance. Our department usually does not carry two way radios with us on calls, instead relying on our pagers to let us know when dispatch is talking to us.

Say I enter a house and begin treatment of a patient. At this time dispatch asks me a question. I am the only person from the department that shows up to the call so I have no partner to send to answer dispatch. Would it be considered abandonment to quickly excuse one's self to step outside to the truck to answer dispatch then return as quickly as possible?

 

[truetiger]

If I were in your situation and dispatch NEEDED an answer right away, give them a phone call. There's nothing you shouldn't be able to discuss with dispatch that you don't want the family to hear, the only exception to that is if you need LE to your scene, in which case as soon as it became apparent the scene was no longer safe, I'd leave and wait for LE.

 

[JPINFV]

What status is the patinet? If he needs ongoing and immediate care and monitoring then there may be issues. If all you're doing is essentially babysitting until the transport unit arrives then I don't see why a quick, "Excuse me, I need to go talk to dispatch for a minute" would hurt. Afterall, even on the non-monitored units in a hospital the patient isn't abandoned if there isn't someone in the room 24/7.

 

[medicdan]

The status of the patient doesn't matter to me, but more of a systemic problem of field providers being on scene and not being able to communicate with dispatch without leaving. Per our discussion in chat, there are portable radios on the truck, but they are hard to access, due to an un-openable door... That signals to me that the department doesnt maintain their equipment well, or has not followed up on required fixes.
Whatever the issue, it is a liability. That next call could be for a code (where you would need to request medics), or an assult (where an EMT/FF is in trouble), and no way of contacting out. THAT is the problem, in my eye.

Wait, on second thought, this sounds JUST like work... no portables....

 

[Seaglass]

Does your system also make use of your personal cell phones?

 

[DrParasite]

Our department usually does not carry two way radios with us on calls, instead relying on our pagers to let us know when dispatch is talking to us.

well, that's your first problem. pagers to notify you of call are one thing, but once you are on scene, you should have a way to contact dispatch and for them to contact you. that means you should have a portable radio with you any time you go inside a building. I have had more than one occasion where a simple medical call went downhill. Botton line: get a radio so you can talk to dispatch, and so they can talk to you.

Say I enter a house and begin treatment of a patient. At this time dispatch asks me a question. I am the only person from the department that shows up to the call so I have no partner to send to answer dispatch. Would it be considered abandonment to quickly excuse one's self to step outside to the truck to answer dispatch then return as quickly as possible?

what if you need to get additional equipment from the truck? it's not abandonment. same idea.

but you should really have a portable radio so you can communicate with dispatch and they can communicate with you.

btw, if dispatch is notifying you that you have a code holding, then you still can't leave your current patient until another person of equal or high training arrives on scene to assume patient care. if you did, THAT would be abandonment.

 

[firetender]

\Would it be considered abandonment to quickly excuse one's self to step outside to the truck to answer dispatch then return as quickly as possible?

You weren't clear if dispatch knew you were there. They should have. Otherwise, question is completely patient condition dependent: If can, can, if no can, no can.

 

[Sasha]

I don't think Rural was asking for opinions on whether or not they should have radios, and anyone should know it's not as simple as marching up to the supervisor and going "I want a portable radio, NOW!" and them magically appearing.

It's not abandonment if you're not leaving your patient to languish to go off and do something better, you are simply excusing yourself to take care of something HOPEFULLY call related (If they are calling you to ask if you all will swing by and bring them a cheeseburger on your way back or something, that is entirely different and they should be reprimanded.). You are not stopping your care for the patient. It would be as if you left to get something off the truck, or leave the patient to go take a look at their meds.

That being said, I try to stay in the same room with a patient if we are at a residence as much as possible. People are crazy! If it's not a matter of cell phone signal, take a few steps back and call, is it necessary to leave the room?

 

[41 Duck]

The situation you described... no. That would not be abandonment to the best of my understanding. If one of my EMTs did that, I wouldn't have an issue with it--provided the PT was relatively stable, and the reasoning behind leaving them alone for a moment was sound.

It's no different than going out to get a stair chair, for example (I use this because it's not something we normally take in with us).

As far as whether leaving the PT is necessary or not--which is a different issue--you could simply ask to use their phone. It worked to call 911 in the first place; one must assume it's both present and functional.


Later!

--Coop

 

[Buzz]

I've done relatively the same thing.

Long story short, two units got sent to an address with a relatively larger patient that is bed-confined in back room. I went in while my partner turned the truck around and waited outside for the other unit. I find it wasn't the patient we were expecting and was instead a much lighter patient in the front room complaining of CVA type symptoms. I asked the caregiver to keep an eye on the patient for a second and quickly popped outside to tell my partner to get the ETA of the ALS unit, who was originally going to transport, from dispatch and told him what was going on. We would have been able to transport the patient without the assist and could have potentially been to the hospital before their arrival to scene.