800 numbers on Ambulances......

[Mountain Res-Q]

What I think is tacky is when an ambulance has "Ambulance" written on it, as if people didn't already know. Cops cars don't, fire engines don't.

Because, you know, "Ambulance" makes all the difference! Remove it and people will stop pulling to the right and letting us by! Oh wait...

Beyond the potential legal requirement for the identification, maybe some "ambulances" are no longer ambulances. Philosophical question: what is a fire engine not used by a fire department? Still a fire engine. What is a cop car no longer in use by LE? Auctioned off to whatever lowlife wants a spray painted, beaten down, urine soaked impala. Same for an ambulance, which is nothing more than a van or box on wheels, may not be an ambulance at all. There is a locksmith locally who bought a type 3 ambulance at auction for his business; removed the SOL, changed the reds to ambers, left the typical ambulance paint job, and for all intents and purposes looks like an ambulance. Type 1 ambulances are used locally for SWAT. I've seen type 1s and 3s used for water rescue teams, amature radio clubs, and for management team command posts (something I am looking it to). Just because it looks like a duck don't mean it is one.

That said, some services need to consult an artistic design company before painting their rigs...

 

[thegreypilgrim]

Expand? When did simple advertising become immoral? It's not like it's saying "call this number instead of 911"

Well, firstly no one said anything about it being immoral. There is an important distinction between law and morality.

More important though, is it has that effect regardless of whether or not it's intended. It happens around here all the time. People call our dispatch center all the time when they should've called 911 from the start - yet no one has wised up as to why this happens. It happens with other services that advertise their business number on the sides of their units too.

The name of the organization ought to be enough advertising as well; and, the public is not actually the organization's customer/client anyway.

 

[usalsfyre]

Well, firstly no one said anything about it being immoral. There is an important distinction between law and morality.

More important though, is it has that effect regardless of whether or not it's intended. It happens around here all the time. People call our dispatch center all the time when they should've called 911 from the start - yet no one has wised up as to why this happens. It happens with other services that advertise their business number on the sides of their units too.

The name of the organization ought to be enough advertising as well; and, the public is not actually the organization's customer/client anyway.

We've had a fair number look up "ambulance" in the yellow pages. Can we not advertise there either?

To sound a bit like VentMedic, we also have a population of residence calls due to the local 911 entities inability or refusal to properly take care of their family member with special needs, usually homecare vents. I really can't say I would encourage those folks to call 911 when you have providers who refuse to pack up a home vent and would rather just fight against the patient with a BVM for a problem completely unrelated to the vent.

Finally, you imply that if it's currently not illegal than it is immoral and should be banned on that ground. Perhaps I read too much into your statement.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

We've had a fair number look up "ambulance" in the yellow pages. Can we not advertise there either?

Print or online directories is another matter. What ought to be curtailed is advertising directed specifically at the public (i.e. posting contact info on units, distributing materials directly to lay non-healthcare providers, television/radio commercials, etc.). The point is, someone should have to go out of their way to find that sort of information.

To sound a bit like VentMedic, we also have a population of residence calls due to the local 911 entities inability or refusal to properly take care of their family member with special needs, usually homecare vents and a few LVADs. I really can't say I would encourage those folks to call 911 when you have providers who refuse to pack up a home vent and would rather just fight against the patient with a BVM for a problem completely unrelated to the vent.

This is a legitimate concern, but think about it this way. Surely there are populations that don't feel adequately served by the local police, yet I think we can agree that it would be highly counterproductive (if not unethical) for them to turn to some private security force to attend to their law enforcement needs.

 

[usalsfyre]

Print or online directories is another matter. What ought to be curtailed is advertising directed specifically at the public (i.e. posting contact info on units, distributing materials directly to lay non-healthcare providers, television/radio commercials, etc.). The point is, someone should have to go out of their way to find that sort of information

The yellow pages isn't really inaccessible. We also have a number of residence calls from home to dialysis (which the need for an ambulance is non-existent, but I digress), how are these people supposed to take care of their need?

This is a legitimate concern, but think about it this way. Surely there are populations that don't feel adequately served by the local police, yet I think we can agree that it would be highly counterproductive (if not unethical) for them to turn to some private security force to attend to their law enforcement needs.

Different situation, usually municipalities are really the only entities empowered to enforce the law, currently that's not in anyway the case for healthcare.

Secondly, colleges, hospitals, industrial plants and others have their own security or even police forces and fire departments because the local municipality can not meet their needs. What's different here?

 

[thegreypilgrim]

The yellow pages isn't really inaccessible. We also have a number of residence calls from home to dialysis (which the need for an ambulance is non-existent, but I digress), how are these people supposed to take care of their need?

I didn't say "inaccessible". I just said someone should have to go out of their way, and make a conscious decision to search for and find that information independently. As for home to dialysis calls, the patient's case manager at the dialysis facility or managed care network should be making those arrangements.

Different situation, usually municipalities are really the only entities empowered to enforce the law, currently that's not in anyway the case for healthcare.

It's an analogous scenario though. In both cases, a needed public service is provided for and structured (hopefully) in a way that it is orderly and designed to eliminate exploitation or gaps in service. You can't have people circumventing that system as it effectively undermines it, and would lead to chaos if it were permitted.

Secondly, colleges, hospitals, industrial plants and others have their own security or even police forces and fire departments because the local municipality can not meet their needs. What's different here?

Usually only as an ancillary/first response role. Also, said organizations should have authorization to utilize such resources from local jurisdictional authorities. It's quite different from whole segments of individual citizens randomly and haphazardly doing things on their own.

 

[Tigger]

More important though, is it has that effect regardless of whether or not it's intended. It happens around here all the time. People call our dispatch center all the time when they should've called 911 from the start - yet no one has wised up as to why this happens. It happens with other services that advertise their business number on the sides of their units too.

Our dedicated 911 trucks do not have the business line on them. However, we provide services in addition to 911 response, so it makes sense to have a number to reach us on our trucks. The more advertising, the more opportunities for business. Many facilities are also encouraged to call our dispatch center before 911. Otherwise they would be placing an unnecessary burden on the municipal system. In the rare event a timely response by a company unit is not possible, our dispatchers will contact the city in behalf of the caller.

I still feel the greatest use for the business line on the rear of the trucks is its use as a deterrent against crappy driving.

 

[Tigger]

Usually only as an ancillary/first response role. Also, said organizations should have authorization to utilize such resources from local jurisdictional authorities. It's quite different from whole segments of individual citizens randomly and haphazardly doing things on their own.

Many colleges and hospitals in Massachusetts have their own full time police departments with full police powers. This negates the need for additional help from municipal agencies. Their units frequently display a campus emergency number and not 911.

Not sure if this is the case elsewhere, though I have seen it in other places in Colorado.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

Our dedicated 911 trucks do not have the business line on them. However, we provide services in addition to 911 response, so it makes sense to have a number to reach us on our trucks. The more advertising, the more opportunities for business. Many facilities are also encouraged to call our dispatch center before 911. Otherwise they would be placing an unnecessary burden on the municipal system. In the rare event a timely response by a company unit is not possible, our dispatchers will contact the city in behalf of the caller.

The only number the public needs is or should have in their minds when they have an emergency is 911. I actually disagree at the outset that healthcare is even a commercial industry, but that's neither here nor there.

Advertising to healthcare facilities/institutions is a different matter, however, and having them use the company business line rather than the 911 system is obviously reasonable. The point is, marketing measures should be directed at them, not the public.

I still feel the greatest use for the business line on the rear of the trucks is its use as a deterrent against crappy driving.

There are more effective, and more appropriate methods of countering poor driving.

 

[thegreypilgrim]

Many colleges and hospitals in Massachusetts have their own full time police departments with full police powers. This negates the need for additional help from municipal agencies. Their units frequently display a campus emergency number and not 911.

Not sure if this is the case elsewhere, though I have seen it in other places in Colorado.

As I said elsewhere, they have full authorization to do this; and, given that these are institutions they have the capability to maintain an internal system of quality assurance, oversight, and so on. It's just pure confusion to liken such scenarios with individual, private citizens randomly and without the best competence doing the same thing.

 

[usalsfyre]

It's an analogous scenario though. In both cases, a needed public service is provided for and structured (hopefully) in a way that it is orderly and designed to eliminate exploitation or gaps in service. You can't have people circumventing that system as it effectively undermines it, and would lead to chaos if it were permitted.

Undermining what system? This is healthcare, not the law. People calling an alternative EMS service will not cause social breakdown. Artificial monopolies are put in place to benefit the provider, not the citizen in this case (hence why FDs and private 911 contracts insist on them),

Usually only as an ancillary/first response role. Also, said organizations should have authorization to utilize such resources from local jurisdictional authorities. It's quite different from whole segments of individual citizens randomly and haphazardly doing things on their own.

As I said elsewhere, they have full authorization to do this; and, given that these are institutions they have the capability to maintain an internal system of quality assurance, oversight, and so on. It's just pure confusion to liken such scenarios with individual, private citizens randomly and without the best competence doing the same thing.

So it's ok to empower organizations but not individuals? I am held to the same standards as the local 911 providers by state and local regulating bodies. We have established there are circumstances we can better meet needs than the local 911 providers. Why should the patient suffer for "the greater good" because the FD doesn't like someone playing in what they see as their sandbox?

 

[thegreypilgrim]

Undermining what system? This is healthcare, not the law. People calling an alternative EMS service will not cause social breakdown. Artificial monopolies are put in place to benefit the provider, not the citizen in this case (hence why FDs and private 911 contracts insist on them),

The public health system. EMS is part of public health is it not? And why is the extreme notion of complete social breakdown the standard? Just because something likely wouldn't result in a complete dystopian situation, doesn't mean it's still not harmful or problematic. Sure, exclusive operating areas are beneficial to the provider, but I would argue that they benefit the citizen as well (or at least should - definitely moreso than the provider). It prevents disparity in service accessibility, quality, and so on; and, if it doesn't then the system is of poor design and should be revised.

So it's ok to empower organizations but not individuals?

In my mind, this is to make the best of a less than ideal situation. Ideally no, there would be no organization-specific safety/health infrastructure, but unfortunately that can't be accomplished. Also, organizations that are engaged in this have to have some sort of internal oversight mechanism and quality assurance/control programs - something that random citizens don't have the expertise or resources for.

I am held to the same standards as the local 911 providers by state and local regulating bodies. We have established there are circumstances we can better meet needs than the local 911 providers. Why should the patient suffer for "the greater good" because the FD doesn't like someone playing in what they see as their sandbox?

Like I said, if there are disparities in accessibility and quality then the EOA should be revised. The point is, private citizens are not in a position to really assess in an informed way what they even need (asymmetry of information) and it's inappropriate for some organization with a vested financial interest in providing their services to facilitate that kind of inquiry.

 

[Amberlamps916]

This is what I mean by tacky....

 

[Tigger]

There are more effective, and more appropriate methods of countering poor driving.

Obviously, it's just one tool in the toolbox. However it also costs a whopping 10 dollars of vinyl, most other driver safety initiatives cost quite a bit more.

 

[Amberlamps916]

I now know how it feels when your own thread has deviated from the original topic.......

 

[Medic One]

A service I used to work for had an 800 number with a funny twist
800-382-3222 if spelled on the phone it spells "800-fuc-d-cab" The boss had a great sense of humor I guess spelling f the cab worked for him ....so just call an ambulance

 

[looker]

Phone number, name of the company etc is required by CHP in state of California. Plus it would be stupid not to include your phone number on vehicle being it works as mobile advertisement.

 

[looker]

The only number the public needs is or should have in their minds when they have an emergency is 911. I actually disagree at the outset that healthcare is even a commercial industry, but that's neither here nor there.

Advertising to healthcare facilities/institutions is a different matter, however, and having them use the company business line rather than the 911 system is obviously reasonable. The point is, marketing measures should be directed at them, not the public.

There are more effective, and more appropriate methods of countering poor driving.

Huh? So when private individual need an ambulance for non emergency transport and not associated with any facility, they should call who?

 

[looker]

I am looking at those picture would love to know what is wrong with that? It have name of the company , phone number and it says ambulance all info that is required to have.

 

[Amberlamps916]

Phone number, name of the company etc is required by CHP in state of California. Plus it would be stupid not to include your phone number on vehicle being it works as mobile advertisement.

There is no phone number on the rigs for the company I work for.....in California.